No side radiator on 2008 Vectra

smlranger · 07-27-2007, 05:19 PM

Was browsing Winne web site last evening looking at 'preview' of 2008 Vectra. Reading the specs, noted listing of 425hp Cummins with rear radiator. No mention of side rad option.

Checked with a trusted source at Winnebago today and was told, indeed, there will be no side radiator option on 2008 Vectra's.

smlranger · 07-27-2007, 05:19 PM

Was browsing Winne web site last evening looking at 'preview' of 2008 Vectra. Reading the specs, noted listing of 425hp Cummins with rear radiator. No mention of side rad option.

Checked with a trusted source at Winnebago today and was told, indeed, there will be no side radiator option on 2008 Vectra's.

John_Canfield · 07-28-2007, 01:54 AM

What in the world were the product designers thinking about when they came up with that bright idea

For me, one of the huge advantages with the Vectra/Horizon has been the side radiator. It stays cleaner, maintenance access is easier (which means cheaper), and you get a variable speed hydraulic fan instead of a direct-drive fan.

Oh my goodness!

Route 66 · 07-28-2007, 04:05 AM

This sounds like another chapter in the constant battle between design, engineering, marketing, and last but not least, the bean counters.

ichn2go · 07-28-2007, 04:32 AM

Doesn't the radiator location come from the chassis manufacturer? Or are we saying the chassis people put it where Winnie tells them?

Route 66 · 07-28-2007, 04:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Doesn't the radiator location come from the chassis manufacturer? Or are we saying the chassis people put it where Winnie tells them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The MH manufacturer can order the chassis to their specs, within certain limits.

smlranger · 07-28-2007, 05:29 AM

I was certainly disappointed. Hope that this is only a temporary situation. Our next rig will likely be one that we keep well into retirement and I don't want my next pusher to be a rear radiator configuration for the reasons John stated.

Not sure why Winnebago decided to make this change on their flagship coach, especially in view of the other potentially good features of the new Maxxum chassis.

Pusherman · 07-28-2007, 05:41 AM

I read somewhere in this forum that for '08 the CAT C7 was being delivered with a radiator fan clutch configuration, which should improve mileage.

Is this true for the new Vectra with the Cummins engine?

Outbumn · 07-28-2007, 07:24 AM

We took the ride and drive in a 08 Vectra at GNR on the new Maxum Chassis. Everyone that drove the unit commented about how much better it rode and drove compared to thier current Diesel-Pushers. To me it rode and drove better than our Suncruiser.

My point here is that the host said that by moving the radiator, they incresed the mileage by 1 MPG.

kellysrv · 07-29-2007, 05:23 AM

I also took the "ride and drive" in a 2008 Vectra at GNR. I was told that the side radiator hydraulic system drew 13-16 hp and was running essentially all the time. Whereas the new rear radiator with declutching fan that runs only when needed averages 1 to 1.3 mpg fuel economy improvement. This more than compensates for the negative effects of the particulate filters required on the 2007 and later motors.

Moder2 · 07-29-2007, 11:07 AM

Let's just hope they designed it better than Mine!

I can say I will NEVER have another rear radiator, period. In fact it is really my only major gripe about this unit!

John

John_Canfield · 07-29-2007, 04:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kellysrv:
I also took the "ride and drive" in a 2008 Vectra at GNR. I was told that the side radiator hydraulic system drew 13-16 hp and was running essentially all the time. Whereas the new rear radiator with declutching fan that runs only when needed averages 1 to 1.3 mpg fuel economy improvement. This more than compensates for the negative effects of the particulate filters required on the 2007 and later motors. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's not correct according to a Cummins tech I talked to when we thought we had a cooling problem last summer. Our cooling fan does not run until the coolant is at 215 degrees.

Sounds like you might be the victim of some marketing 'euphoria.'

JonD · 07-29-2007, 06:40 PM

We recently bought an 04 Meridian [rear radiator]. We had cooling problems until the shop cleaned the intercooler and radiator. Now, it runs very well, cooler than ever before.

If our coach had a side radiator, we wouldn't have had a partially clogged radiator. Seems as though a 'slobber' tube redesign could leave us rear radiator coach owner's with a better choice and still improve fuel economy.

kellysrv · 07-30-2007, 05:52 AM

John,

You are probably right about the "marketing euphoria" but what I was referring to about "running all the time" was the hydraulic pump for the side radiator, not the fan itself. I would guess the pump is similar to a power steering pump.

vicsryd · 07-30-2007, 10:34 AM

I used to have side radiator envy for all the obvious reasons.

However, this summer been in caravans with Vectra's with side radiators and discovered they are much more prone to overheating than I am. In 100 degree ambient temps I run 195-200 degrees all day long even on grades and the Vectra's ran more like 215-220. On 5-6% grades the Vectra's had to keep it in 4th gear at 2000rpm to keep from overheating. I don't have this issue whatsoever.

I know two folks with 04 and 05 Vectra's who found out during PM's their fans were on all the time regardless because the thermostatic relay had "melted" and so the system defaulted to "on". There is no warning light or fault code to show this problem.

Also, according to CAT/Cummins documents the hydraulically controlled side radiator fans can draw as much as 30hp when they are full on.

I got my slobber tube/misting under control and clean the cooling package once a year myself. So this is no longer a concern for me either.

If I can get the clutch fan drive retrofit applied and run a little quieter and improve the fuel mileage I'll be golden in this area.

smlranger · 07-30-2007, 10:41 AM

Good points on the potential overheating and horsepower drain issue. I've also had no issues with overheating with my rear rad rig...out West last year pulling some serious grades, the temp on the CAT hardly moved.

My concern, perhaps misguided, was the ease of service for things like belts, etc. However, considering that belts can last years before replacement is needed, you're not paying to replace those but perhaps once in the average ownership experience for most of us.

John_Canfield · 07-30-2007, 12:12 PM

I learned quite a bit last summer when I thought I had overheating problems - it wasn't an engine issue, it was a driver issue.

What I didn't do was keep the engine RPM up to 2,000 for the coolant to be effectively circulated. Diesel engines apparently are running much hotter by design for emissions requirements. People have told me their 10 (or whatever) year old engine ran 10 to 15 degrees cooler. Ah, the good old days

About the hydraulic fan motor always running - that makes sense, but it's not under load until the 'magic' 215 degrees. There is probably some horsepower loss even with the fan not on, but I suspect it isn't much.

Since I have been "trained", we have never had overheating issues and we have been up some long monster grades in our travels.

I'll keep my side radiator.

vicsryd · 08-06-2007, 05:24 PM

My additional thoughts to add to this thread:

- According to the Caterpillar RV Performance Guide, the parasitic power loss for a hydaulic fan and a clutch type fan are about the same across the range given the same engine/temperature/load requirements. The big difference comes when compared to fixed fans (like my Journy has). So any hp/mpg savings hype Winnie may tout is for the Journey/Meridian and Tour/Ellipse and not the Vectra/Horizon.

- I'm removing my benefit of the doubt and now also believe Winnebago did this for cost savings (and possibly to remove one less thing for the sales people to remember). One version of the Tiffin Allegro Bus is built on a FL chassis very similar to the last years Evolution chassis and, per specs on the Tiffin web site, the 2008 model has ISL 425 with side radiator.

UPS 34 · 08-07-2007, 01:15 AM

I was planning on looking closely at the 08 Vectra to replace our Journey. We have been happy with it but want to upgrade some. A side Radiator was on my list. List is long... I think No side Radiatior will make me leave winny. Newmar may be in our future.

John_Canfield · 08-07-2007, 03:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UPS 34:
I was planning on looking closely at the 08 Vectra to replace our Journey. We have been happy with it but want to upgrade some. A side Radiator was on my list. List is long... I think No side Radiatior will make me leave winny. Newmar may be in our future. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>As much as it pains me to say it, that's probably a good decision if you are in the market for a coach in the price range of the Vectra/Horizon. Plus I think Newmar is now equipping the Comfort Drive on the Dutch Star and maybe the Kountry Star (I haven't looked at those specs.)

As I think more about this situation, I strongly suspect Winnie's objective is to drive the manufacturing cost down to keep the product at a certain price-point and keep the profit per unit at or above a certain point.

In spite of the responses I have read in this thread, it is still clear to me (and many others I'm sure) the side radiator has certain advantages the rear radiator will not ever realize.

Winnie will undoubtedly get their advertising copy writers busy touting the rear radiator "advantages" but I suspect knowledgeable and experienced shoppers will see through the "spin" and decide based on facts.