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07-02-2015, 06:33 AM
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#1
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dacula, Georgia
Posts: 184
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Need Basement Air Suggestions ASAP
I am presently camping on the beach at Hunting Island State Park. Have been here 6 days no problem. I have the basement air system and am plugged into a 30 amp pedestal (no 50 amp available).
Woke up this morning and noticed it was getting warm in the coach and figured out the coach had no power. I shut off AC and went to campground source and discovered breaker was tripped. Reset and went in and turned on AC. It came on and and I noticed the power management system was showing the amps fluctuating from 20-27 amps and then the breaker tripped again.
Again I shut everything down and went out and reset the breaker. At this point the campground pedestal all but blew up. Lots of popping and lots of smoke. I kicked the shore power cord out of the outlet and am now waiting for the campground store to open so they can have someone work on the pedestal.
I have now started the generator and have full power inside and the power management board is showing was pulling a constant 22 amps until a minute ago when it dropped to 15 amps (I assume that is because the temp has dropped to a point where compressor #2 just dropped off).
As I said, everything has worked perfectly for 6 days. Once the pedestal is repaired, is there anything inside the coach I should checkout?
I apologize for how long this post is, but have always received good advice from you folks.
__________________
2000 Itasca Horizon 36LD
300 HP Cat Diesel
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07-02-2015, 07:00 AM
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#2
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Weyauwega, WI US
Posts: 1,486
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GaDawgFan;
I had something similar happen a few years ago. I was plugged into 30A and drawing 26 -27 amps. It was the end of July and HOT. The power pedestal kept tripping off. When the electrician checked the pedestal he found loose connections on the incoming power lugs. He checked everything for loose connections and it worked fine after that. Nothing was damaged in the coach.
My guess is there was a loose connection or incorrect wire size in the pedestal (both cause over heating) and the excessive heat melted the wire covering and it started to arc. Once that happens it is all down hill from there. Good luck and please post back what they find as we all learn from each other.
Don
__________________
Don & Bev Morgan Weyauwega WI, 05 Itasca Horizon 40KD, 400 HP Cummins, Delorme GPS LT 40, Toad 07 Saturn Vue AWD, Air Force One, TST 510 TPMS, Mayor of Weyauwega 2007 - 2013, Waupaca Co Board Supervisor 2010 - 2014
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07-02-2015, 07:00 AM
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#3
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaDawgFan
I am presently camping on the beach at Hunting Island State Park. Have been here 6 days no problem. I have the basement air system and am plugged into a 30 amp pedestal (no 50 amp available).
Woke up this morning and noticed it was getting warm in the coach and figured out the coach had no power. I shut off AC and went to campground source and discovered breaker was tripped. Reset and went in and turned on AC. It came on and and I noticed the power management system was showing the amps fluctuating from 20-27 amps and then the breaker tripped again.
Again I shut everything down and went out and reset the breaker. At this point the campground pedestal all but blew up. Lots of popping and lots of smoke. I kicked the shore power cord out of the outlet and am now waiting for the campground store to open so they can have someone work on the pedestal.
I have now started the generator and have full power inside and the power management board is showing was pulling a constant 22 amps until a minute ago when it dropped to 15 amps (I assume that is because the temp has dropped to a point where compressor #2 just dropped off).
As I said, everything has worked perfectly for 6 days. Once the pedestal is repaired, is there anything inside the coach I should checkout?
I apologize for how long this post is, but have always received good advice from you folks.
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I'm guessing, since all is well with generator power, that you will be fine with a new breaker or repaired wiring. I had the exact same experience last Sept in the Keys. The breaker died and a new breaker totally solved the problem.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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07-02-2015, 07:01 AM
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#4
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 449
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I think your coach will be fine. The 30 amp plugs at many state parks are simply worn out. Get the park maintainance person to put in a new receptacle and a new 30 amp circuit breaker. Have a look at your 30 amp male plug for signs of arcing.
__________________
2010 Winnebago Journey Express 34Y
2010 Freightliner XCS (mfd 9/'09)
'07 Saturn Vue V6
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07-02-2015, 07:08 AM
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#5
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dacula, Georgia
Posts: 184
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I appreciate the replays. I have to give Hunting Island credit. They hay a maintenance guy here in 5 minutes. He is going to replace the breaker and the outlet, just as you guys have suggested. I am going to go ahead and replace my 50 amp to 30 amp connector. It looked s though it had over heated.
__________________
2000 Itasca Horizon 36LD
300 HP Cat Diesel
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07-02-2015, 07:56 AM
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#6
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dacula, Georgia
Posts: 184
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Crisis averted! 30 amp plug and breaker replaced in pedestal. All is well! Thanks for all that responded. Now I am off to load the cooler, grab the fishing gear and head to the beach.
__________________
2000 Itasca Horizon 36LD
300 HP Cat Diesel
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07-02-2015, 09:34 AM
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#7
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Originally from near Portland, OR
Posts: 274
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You might want to consider a Surge Guard to protect your coach from shorts, surges and sags. It can pay for itself pretty quickly when you start adding up the cost of items that would need to be replaced if you have bad wiring in the pedestal that sends a jolt of electricity down the wrong wire.
__________________
Doug Sage
Full timers roaming the good old US of A
2007 Itasca Suncruiser 38J
2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
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07-02-2015, 09:50 AM
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#8
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Winnebago Camper
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sage
You might want to consider a Surge Guard to protect your coach from shorts, surges and sags. It can pay for itself pretty quickly when you start adding up the cost of items that would need to be replaced if you have bad wiring in the pedestal that sends a jolt of electricity down the wrong wire.
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I second this recommendation & suggest a Progressive Industries PI HW50c. Here's a picture:
Use a dogbone for 30 amp.
Jim & Shirley & Abbie (Scottie)
2013 Newmar Canyon Star 3911
2005 Dodge Grand Caravan
🎓 I always think I know more than I actually do! I'm not a 🚀 scientist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. 🏩
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Jim & Shirley & Abbie (Scottish Terrier)
2013 Newmar Canyon Star 3911, 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan - Braun Accessibility Modified Toad, Remco Lube Pump, 5 Star Tune, Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C, Coach Net Emergency Road Service, FMCA 378968
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07-03-2015, 02:54 AM
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#9
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 724
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gadawgfan,
my guess is that the pedestal voltage was low. when voltage is low, amp draw increases. you need to monitor voltage as well as amps.
when on 30 amps, I turn off the cb for the #2 ac system and still watch the voltage. low voltage can cause problems with motors, electronics, and other systems.
IMHO a surge protecter is a Necessity.
__________________
01 WINNEBAGO 35U W20.8.1L SW Wa, Hi. Good Sam, SKP. AMSOIL fluids. BANKS ecm program. SCAN GAUGE II w/ Ally temp. 2 LIFELINE GPL-6CT AGM Batts on their sides. TST tptts. K&N panel air filter. AERO mufflers. TAYLOR plug wires. ULTRA POWER track bar. KONI fsd shocks, toad '14 smart car
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07-03-2015, 07:55 AM
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#10
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,520
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While a Surge Protector is nice an Autoformer that boosts brownouts back to an acceptable range is preferable. I have not had any more burnt hard start caps in my AC or other brownout damage in my coach since installing an Autoformer 10 years ago. Before that I was constantly faced with low camp voltage shutting down the Surge Protector and leaving me with the choice of going without and moving the kids along with the pets into the rec center or other conditioned space or hitting the bypass taking my chances with loosing equipment.
Low voltage and brownouts cause accumulated damage to the electrical components of your coach that eventual result in a premature failure.
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Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
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07-03-2015, 08:21 AM
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#11
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilV
While a Surge Protector is nice an Autoformer that boosts brownouts back to an acceptable range is preferable. I have not had any more burnt hard start caps in my AC or other brownout damage in my coach since installing an Autoformer 10 years ago. Before that I was constantly faced with low camp voltage shutting down the Surge Protector and leaving me with the choice of going without and moving the kids along with the pets into the rec center or other conditioned space or hitting the bypass taking my chances with loosing equipment.
Low voltage and brownouts cause accumulated damage to the electrical components of your coach that eventual result in a premature failure.
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Since low voltage is the single most likely electrical issue we face as RVers, the Autoformer is a great piece of equipment to have. They generally also have a basic "surge/spike" protection circuit built in. The problem is that socking up a surge will likely fry the circuit and the Autoformer will require a rebuild. The Progressive EMS is designed to be field repairable and is of modular construction.
I'm a full timer and am plugged into a wide range of pedestals. Some new and some not. I have, over time, installed both an Autoformer which is first in line and the a Progressive EMS. They are both hard wired into the coach and are active every time the power cord is plugged in.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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07-03-2015, 01:05 PM
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#12
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dacula, Georgia
Posts: 184
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This is great information. I appreciate it.
__________________
2000 Itasca Horizon 36LD
300 HP Cat Diesel
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07-03-2015, 01:13 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 12
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I have a small RV park.. You name it I have had it happen.. I can only began to tell you all the problems Compressors/Air conditioners , and electric heaters cause in the electrical system cause... The problems are not the breakers . But the IDIOTS that see a 30 amp breaker then Load it down to 27/30 amps..... Let me explain to you if a breaker is 30 amps. when new every time it is tripped the value goes down. after 20 trips it may only be a true 20 amp breaker... Now put the problem where it should be..... Is it the breakers fault, or the 8&^%. That over loaded it?
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07-03-2015, 01:25 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 12
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I forgot to post .. The Auto transformer Has an inverse relation ship with amp and Volts.. That being said If you are reading 106 volts with 30 amps. and you want 120 volts the amps will drop accordingly , to about 23 amps. I shell keep my opium to my self about transformers.. I have herd salesmen describe them as though they actually produce Voltage and/or amps... Well folks they DON'T;
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07-03-2015, 01:47 PM
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#15
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony Bachler
I forgot to post .. The Auto transformer Has an inverse relation ship with amp and Volts.. That being said If you are reading 106 volts with 30 amps. and you want 120 volts the amps will drop accordingly , to about 23 amps. I shell keep my opium to my self about transformers.. I have herd salesmen describe them as though they actually produce Voltage and/or amps... Well folks they DON'T;
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I agree about the inverse relationship but if you are running an A/C unit and the VAC has dropped to say 104 which is 15% low, the amps consumed increase 15 %. This combined with the compressor running slower will cause the unit to run hotter & will shorten it's life. The amps are higher either way. I prefer to convert those amps to volts.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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07-03-2015, 01:48 PM
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#16
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ownby
I agree about the inverse relationship but if you are running an A/C unit and the VAC has dropped to say 104 which is 15% low, the amps consumed increase 15 %. This combined with the compressor running slower will cause the unit to run hotter & will shorten it's life. The amps are higher either way. I prefer to convert those amps to volts.
You have a nice coach. When faced with low voltage, what do you do?
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
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Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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07-03-2015, 02:48 PM
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#17
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 449
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I stayed in a CG two weeks ago which prohibited the use of auto transformers.
__________________
2010 Winnebago Journey Express 34Y
2010 Freightliner XCS (mfd 9/'09)
'07 Saturn Vue V6
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07-03-2015, 10:24 PM
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#18
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ownby
Since low voltage is the single most likely electrical issue we face as RVers, the Autoformer is a great piece of equipment to have. They generally also have a basic "surge/spike" protection circuit built in. The problem is that socking up a surge will likely fry the circuit and the Autoformer will require a rebuild. The Progressive EMS is designed to be field repairable and is of modular construction.
I'm a full timer and am plugged into a wide range of pedestals. Some new and some not. I have, over time, installed both an Autoformer which is first in line and the a Progressive EMS. They are both hard wired into the coach and are active every time the power cord is plugged in.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
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I have a Surge Guard first in line so the AutoFormer won't be taking the hit. Surge Guard is local to me which makes a walk in visit possible when I get home.
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
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07-03-2015, 10:51 PM
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#19
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasA
I stayed in a CG two weeks ago which prohibited the use of auto transformers.
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Don't understand why as the draw will be about the same unless its to their benefit for people to blow out their equipment and not be able to use the park electric. When voltage goes down amp draw goes up so there will be some equalizing as the internal voltage goes up and amp draw goes down. AC systems will then run more efficiently and cycle off more often which overall would drop the load instead of everyone's systems drawing constantly and not able to cycle.
I tend to cross those parks off my list since the collateral damage costs too much in the long run.
I sent an inquiry to Hughes on this topic of bans to see how they respond however this is what their on-line documentation has about the working of the AutoFormers:
"Autoformers are used in industries to stabilize voltage and lower the operating cost of equipment. The Autoformer has 5 windings: 2 primary and 3 secondary. All models have surge and spike protection. When the unit is in Automatic and the park or input voltage is 116 volts or below, the output is 10% over the input. When the input is over 118 volts, the output is 2% over the input. The Autoformer DOES NOT take power from the park.
It does not affect the park or input voltage, or make electricity.
What it is doing is changing the voltage – amperage relationship, lowering the amperage and raising the voltage. Since appliances run better on higher voltage, lower amperage, less overall power is used from the park, and better service is enjoyed from your RV
An Autoformer running at full output (50amps) will use 1 amp, but will cause appliances to cycle more often and run cooler. This will use less total power from the park.
Enjoy Your Autoformer Knowing You Are Doing Your Part For The Environment."
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
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