Need advice on "Amp-L-Start" wiring

[FIRE UP]

Hey folks.
Well, in the ongoing saga of repair/maintenance/alterations/modifications etc., I'm installing an "Amp-L-Start" unit this evening. Our coach is an '04 Itasca Horizon and, it DID NOT COME with any provisions for chassis battery charging, while plugged into shore power. Well, I remedied that about 4 years ago when we purchased this coach. Not knowing about the Trik-L-Start back then, I purchased and hardwire-installed, a three stage NAPA battery charger who's sole duty was to take care of the chassis batteries.

It's been doing that task for four years now. But, recently, one of my 5 year old chassis batteries went south for the winter and, never returned. So, I purchased two new Deka 950CCA chassis batteries. When I installed them and plugged in the coach, I noticed I was not receiving a charge to them, via that stand-alone battery charger. Hmmmmm.

Well, some investigation turned up that, that Napa charger, IS DEAD! So, upon reading so many positive posts/threads about Trik-L-Start and, the newer, larger brother of it, the Amp-L-Start, I though what the heck, I'll get that one and, see how long it lasts.

So, I've got it mounted and, the wires are leading from it but, are not tied into anything just yet. As many of you know, there's only three wires from it. One for the house battery connection, one for the Chassis battery connection and, one for ground. Well, I got the ground, that was a "No brainer".

But, where I'm stuck is this:.

Winnebago started installing the Trik-L-Start in '06 and, they've put out a bulletin on how they suggest to wire it. They suggest, the Chassis wire be connected to the chassis battery connection on the "Auxiliary Battery Start" solenoid. But, they also suggest that the house battery wire from the Trik-L-Start be wired to the house battery connection on, the "Battery Disconnect" solenoid. That's two different solenoids. No biggie but, it's what they suggest.

But, here's where I'm wondering something. Amp-L-Starts instructions show that you can run the two wires, both house and chassis battery connections, to the Battery Boost solenoid (aka the Auxiliary Battery Start), one on one side (large lug) and, one on the other, (large lug).

To most guys, this is a simple decision and, would have been done with this project long ago. But, I'm assuming that the folks that built both the Amp-L-Start and the Trik-L-Start, know what they're doing when they send out a set of instructions and, put them on the net too.

My concern is, when that Battery Boost solenoid is not being used, as in engine running and, used for temporarily attaching the house batteries to the coach batteries for turning the engine over if the chassis batteries are too low, then attaching the Amp-L-Start to those two posts, would be fine. But, what happens when, say the house batteries are fairly low, due to boon docking camping, and, you fire that engine up and, now you've got a 160 amp alternator charging both sets, through that battery boost solenoid and, you've got that Amp-L-Start hooked across those two posts?????

I'm going to ASSUME that, there's electronics inside that Amp-L-Start that would prevent damage when that kind of situation takes place. Otherwise, it would COOK. But, like stated, I'm assuming they know what they're doing.

So, can I wire it to the one solenoid or, do it as Winne did it and suggests it, in their bulletin?

Scott

P.S. In page two of the link below, you'll see the EXACT same Battery Boost solenoid I have, on the right side of the page, the left one of the two shown. It's to those two upper lugs, that Amp-L-Starts instructions tell you to install both the house and, chassis battery connections.

http://www.lslproducts.net/ALS_Instructs.pdf

But, in the below link, you'll see how Winnebago shows it to be wired. Now, that is primarily for the Trik-L-Start but, I'm also assuming it will be the same for an Amp-L-Start, if it was available back when that pdf was written.

http://www.winnebagoind.com/resource...ik-L-Start.pdf

[cbeierl]

Hi Scott,

This post shows how I mounted my Trik-L-Start: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/batt...ml#post2354138

I don't think it's going to make any difference which way you wire it. The Amp-L-Start (or Trik-L-Start) is internally protected to keep current from flowing the wrong way. The device won't do anything until it detects that the coach/house batteries are being charged and that the chassis batteries are at a lower voltage level.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by cbeierl

Hi Scott,

This post shows how I mounted my Trik-L-Start: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/batt...ml#post2354138

I don't think it's going to make any difference which way you wire it. The Amp-L-Start (or Trik-L-Start) is internally protected to keep current from flowing the wrong way. The device won't do anything until it detects that the coach/house batteries are being charged and that the chassis batteries are at a lower voltage level.

Hey Chris
I was hoping you'd chime in here. Yep, that would have been a great second alternative for me to mount that thing. Obviously I didn't think of it. I mean, both sets of batteries have connections/lugs, right behind that panel door. Not bad at all.

This is one of those things that, in reality, it's just like you said, it doesn't make any difference in how or where it's wired, as long as, it ties in both sets, house and chassis, while the house ones are being charged. It's logic really. But, I thought I'd ask. Thanks very much for your helping here.
Scott


On edit: Here's where mine is mounted:

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Hey, Scott-

I know you're looking at improving the solar on your rig,so I'd thought I'd bring this up in connection with the Amp-L-Start. Oh, and you'll want to confirm the specs, as I'm taking the lazy route by replying before looking it up (I know, I know...).

I believe the Trik-L-Start has a higher allowable input voltage range than the Amp-L-Start. If you follow Handybob's rule of cranking up the output voltage of your solar controller (or, if the controller has temperature compensation), it might exceed the input voltage limit of the Amp-L-Start. The result: the solar panel(s) may not charge your chassis batteries.

Anyway, I (thought I) spotted that difference on the "way through" my own investigations, and it had me thinking the Trik-L-Start, even with its lower output, might work better with solar input. Of course, this could be a worry that does not bear out in practice.

Your installation is neat as a pin, as usual. I like the color coding.

Mark

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

Hey, Scott-

I know you're looking at improving the solar on your rig,so I'd thought I'd bring this up in connection with the Amp-L-Start. Oh, and you'll want to confirm the specs, as I'm taking the lazy route by replying before looking it up (I know, I know...).

I believe the Trik-L-Start has a higher allowable input voltage range than the Amp-L-Start. If you follow Handybob's rule of cranking up the output voltage of your solar controller (or, if the controller has temperature compensation), it might exceed the input voltage limit of the Amp-L-Start. The result: the solar panel(s) may not charge your chassis batteries.

Anyway, I (thought I) spotted that difference on the "way through" my own investigations, and it had me thinking the Trik-L-Start, even with its lower output, might work better with solar input. Of course, this could be a worry that does not bear out in practice.

Your installation is neat as a pin, as usual. I like the color coding.

Mark

Mark,
I surely thank you for chiming in here and, your thoughts. Well, if the Trik-L-Start is, in any way, BETTER than the Amp-L-Start, I'd have thought that it would have been brought up on one of the many, many threads/posts pertaining to battery charging, especially chassis battery charging while being plugged into shore power.

I might have to dig into this to see what I can find. I just went out and checked everything this morning and, all is well. The chassis batts are right at 13.4 and, the little green LED on the Amp-L-Start is bright and glowing, yahooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Now, as for my "Solar" project. While I'm certainly not any form of an expert on that subject, I do have a tiny bit of experience with it. On my last coach, the portable one I had, a 135 watt panel and, Blue Sky 2000E charge controller, went directly to the battery posts, on the house batteries.

So, if I were to do the same setup on this coach, no matter with a portable system or, a permanent one mounted on the roof, and attach the leads from the charge controller right to the battery posts, I don't think the Amp-L-Start would or could, have any effect one what the solar system puts into those house batteries. At least this is my thought.

I put that Amp-L-Start right there for one main reason, on the back side of that panel are the two, main solenoids for house and chassis battery operations. The one is the "Battery Boost Solenoid" (also does double duty as a dual battery isolator for charging the house batteries while under way) and, also in there is the Battery Disconnect Solenoid for the house batteries. So, I ran 10GA wire for the two important runs, even though they are only about 15" long. And, I ran 14GA wire for the Ground since, that's all they called for in the instructions.

I don't like how "Busy" that panel looks now. I like things really clean and nice. But, it is what it is and, it's functioning just fine.
Scott

[grtharris]

FIRE UP, just a little more info. Winnebago connected the Trik-L-Start to the load/converter side of the battery disconnect relay. Doing this allows the chassis battery to be charged with the coach battery disconnected when connected to shore power. I always connect them at the battery isolation relay which connects it directly to the batteries. I feel the batteries help filter out some of the noise from the inverter and that is the way LSL Products shows it.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by grtharris

FIRE UP, just a little more info. Winnebago connected the Trik-L-Start to the load/converter side of the battery disconnect relay. Doing this allows the chassis battery to be charged with the coach battery disconnected when connected to shore power. I always connect them at the battery isolation relay which connects it directly to the batteries. I feel the batteries help filter out some of the noise from the inverter and that is the way LSL Products shows it.

Grant,
I certainly appreciate you're comments here. I do have a question though. I have no CONVERTER on our coach. It has the Magnum 2012ME Inverter/Charger. But, that's a replacement one. It used to have the Dimensions 2000 watt Inverter/charger. In any case, the battery boost solenoid and the disconnect solenoid were not changed, just the inverter.

But, my question is, if and when I use the house battery shut down, to disconnect the house battery from the coach, that also turns off the charger side too. So, If I do that, and, the Amp-L-Start only borrows some of the charging from that inverter/charger, then wouldn't it too, be shut down?

I did wire it the way that LSL shows it to be wired. So far, I'm love'in it.
Scott

[grtharris]

FIRE UP, on our 03 Journey and looking at the drawings for your coach the inverter/converter is wired directly to the coach batteries. The house battery shut down relay only disconnects the coach DC loads not the inverter/converter. So anytime you are connected to shore power the inverter/converter is charging your coach batteries and with the added Amp-L-Start also keeping the chassis batteries charged. I forgot about the inverter/converter being connected differently than a stand alone converter.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by grtharris

FIRE UP, on our 03 Journey and looking at the drawings for your coach the inverter/converter is wired directly to the coach batteries. The house battery shut down relay only disconnects the coach DC loads not the inverter/converter. So anytime you are connected to shore power the inverter/converter is charging your coach batteries and with the added Amp-L-Start also keeping the chassis batteries charged. I forgot about the inverter/converter being connected differently than a stand alone converter.

Grant,
Well Sir, your investigation into my wiring proves what I did last night for a test. After reading your initial comments, I walked out and, hit the battery disconnect switch, at the front door. That shut off all loads, as you say, and, I went to the compartment with my Inverter/Charger and, IT WAS STILL WORKING! Along with that, so was my Amp-L-Start. So, learn something every day on this thing.

That would mean, they only way to shut down either or both of those charging systems is through the remote. Since on this remote and, Magnum ME2000, you can shut down the battery charging mode. When that's done, that, I assume, will shut down the Amp-L-Start.
Scott

[rogo88]

Are the connections the same for an Amp-L as they are for the Trickle Charger? i.e., can you simply mount the Amp-L and reconnect the wires, or are they connected to different components?

Thank you,
Ron

[ernieh]

I guess that I missed this thread previously, but I installed a Trik-L-Start on my old 03 Journey DL. One year at GNR I asked why Winnebago installed it on what I considered to be the "wrong" side of the disconnect. The answer came directly from one of their electrical engineers. He said that they installed the way they did because the TLS has a small (5ma) draw that they wanted to remove from the system when the coach batteries were disconnected.


Considering the use of this device, that still doesn't make sense to me, and I have always installed them in what I call the "always hot" setup.


In answer to the latest question, yes they install the same but the amp load and wire size is different.

[jazzerjump]

Hi all. I have a question after reading all of these posts. I installed the Trikl-Start on our 2012 30T earlier this year. Not being real electrically inclined I wasn't sure where the relays were located (I now know they are behind the electrical panel located behind the right front wheel) so I did the direct to the battery connection in the battery bay under the entry steps. The unit is mounted on the forward wall and there was just enough wire on the unit to reach all lugs. It seems to work fine. I understand there may be some issue with battery venting possibly causing damage in time but the compartment is fairly well ventilated.

Any thoughts on the pluses or minuses on this? One is having to remove steps to check operation rather that just opening the access door. Our 04 Sightseer had an aftermarket charger of a different brand-can't recall the name and it was mounted in the same place and never had a problem. Thanks

[bobmac]

The best and easiest place to mount the unit is at the battery mode solenoid - the same device used with the battery boost switch. There are two heavy contacts on it ( plus control wire connections) - the coach batteries connect to one side and the chassis to the other - the Trik-L-Start bridges the two connections. The solenoid closes when the ignition is on to charge both batteries. When the ignition is off, the Trik-L-Start will divert some of the charge going to the coach batteries being charged by the inverter/charger or converter, to the chassis batteries. This solenoid is located in the same area as other chassis battery connections. On my Journey, that is in the DS electrical compartment behind the rear axle. You must remove a metal panel to access the solenoid. Also located there, are the inverter, chassis circuit fuses and slide controllers. Good luck,

[jazzerjump]

Thanks Bob. I will probably change it out after we get to warmer weather so I can scope where everything is and exactly where to mount it

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by jazzerjump

Hi all. I have a question after reading all of these posts. I installed the Trikl-Start on our 2012 30T earlier this year. Not being real electrically inclined I wasn't sure where the relays were located (I now know they are behind the electrical panel located behind the right front wheel) so I did the direct to the battery connection in the battery bay under the entry steps. The unit is mounted on the forward wall and there was just enough wire on the unit to reach all lugs. It seems to work fine. I understand there may be some issue with battery venting possibly causing damage in time but the compartment is fairly well ventilated.

Any thoughts on the pluses or minuses on this? One is having to remove steps to check operation rather that just opening the access door. Our 04 Sightseer had an aftermarket charger of a different brand-can't recall the name and it was mounted in the same place and never had a problem. Thanks

I've got mine wired directly to the batteries. Works fine. Either location/connection works well, I think it's a matter of personal preference.