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Old 05-09-2016, 06:52 PM   #1
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Full wall slide out sags

My problem has now occurred twice, so I am hoping/expecting that others with a 32 foot Adventurer or Suncruiser, with a full wall slide out, have experienced the same problem. My problem is that the two adjustment bolts that hold the bracket for the roller on the middle slide out ram have broken. These bolt are not accessible without removing the slide out and some of the flooring.

The first time they broke I was told that they did so because we did not use the slide out lock while traveling. This was true because during the walk through, when we took delivery of the unit, I specifically asked what was the slide out lock for and was told that it is there “to keep kids from playing with the slide outs”. So, since it had now become “our fault” we ponied up several thousand dollars and had the bolts replaced.

But I was then concerned that the real problem was that it was not adjusted correctly. So after the repair I took it to a different repair shop (Winnebago certified) and asked them to check the alignment. For $140 they told me that it was “dead on”. 17 months later the bolts have snapped again. So I am pretty sure it’s a design flaw, but Winnebago will not admit it.

So this time I want to repair it myself. My idea is to get the bracket in the right position and then weld a plate between the roller bracket and the bracket that holds the heads of the broken bolts. This can all be done without removing the slide. Of course the down side is that, after that, no more adjustment is possible. My thinking is that it should not have to be adjusted again and even if it did, I can incur the expense of removing the slide out then.

The one hitch in the plan is Winnebago will not tell me how to adjust the roller brackets. The only provide information on how to make adjustments at the end of the rams where the slide out connects. I can move the middle bracket to be in the same plane as the two end brackets, but that presumes that both of the end brackets are in the correct location. There is a much longer story that strongly suggests that these bolt broke when the unit was driven from the factory to the dealer, so I have reason to suspect the end brackets are not in the correct location.

Has anybody experienced the same problem? Any suggestions?

PS
It is very hard to detect this problem. Its first symptom is that the slide out is too low to open the outside compartments, However when the slide is out and you inspect the bolts they are jammed so close that the break cannot be seen. If you take it to the dealer they can make adjustments to the outside of the end rams so that the compartments will open. But the problem, will reappear. I found the problem only after I decided to make the adjustment myself and noticed that the dealer had snapped off the head of one of the bolts that attached the slide out to ram. I decided to try to remove that bolt so it can be replaced. So I cribbed the slide out, and imaging my surprised when the ram that was supposed to be support the slide out fell down after I removed that last bolt holding it to the slide out. Yes the slide out was holding up the ram that was supposed to be supporting the slide out. The two broken bolts were then easy to spot.

So if any of you have experienced not being able to open your outside compartments and you think it got fixed you may want to have those bolts examined.
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Old 05-09-2016, 07:08 PM   #2
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I wonder if talking to Power Gear directly could have any useful info.

Thanks for posting this, it is possible you may have single handily uncovered a flaw needed to be addressed for this particular unit?

W.D.
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Old 05-09-2016, 10:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokgunner View Post
My problem has now occurred twice, so I am hoping/expecting that others with a 32 foot Adventurer or Suncruiser, with a full wall slide out, have experienced the same problem. My problem is that the two adjustment bolts that hold the bracket for the roller on the middle slide out ram have broken. These bolt are not accessible without removing the slide out and some of the flooring.



The first time they broke I was told that they did so because we did not use the slide out lock while traveling. This was true because during the walk through, when we took delivery of the unit, I specifically asked what was the slide out lock for and was told that it is there “to keep kids from playing with the slide outs”. So, since it had now become “our fault” we ponied up several thousand dollars and had the bolts replaced.



But I was then concerned that the real problem was that it was not adjusted correctly. So after the repair I took it to a different repair shop (Winnebago certified) and asked them to check the alignment. For $140 they told me that it was “dead on”. 17 months later the bolts have snapped again. So I am pretty sure it’s a design flaw, but Winnebago will not admit it.



So this time I want to repair it myself. My idea is to get the bracket in the right position and then weld a plate between the roller bracket and the bracket that holds the heads of the broken bolts. This can all be done without removing the slide. Of course the down side is that, after that, no more adjustment is possible. My thinking is that it should not have to be adjusted again and even if it did, I can incur the expense of removing the slide out then.



The one hitch in the plan is Winnebago will not tell me how to adjust the roller brackets. The only provide information on how to make adjustments at the end of the rams where the slide out connects. I can move the middle bracket to be in the same plane as the two end brackets, but that presumes that both of the end brackets are in the correct location. There is a much longer story that strongly suggests that these bolt broke when the unit was driven from the factory to the dealer, so I have reason to suspect the end brackets are not in the correct location.



Has anybody experienced the same problem? Any suggestions?



PS

It is very hard to detect this problem. Its first symptom is that the slide out is too low to open the outside compartments, However when the slide is out and you inspect the bolts they are jammed so close that the break cannot be seen. If you take it to the dealer they can make adjustments to the outside of the end rams so that the compartments will open. But the problem, will reappear. I found the problem only after I decided to make the adjustment myself and noticed that the dealer had snapped off the head of one of the bolts that attached the slide out to ram. I decided to try to remove that bolt so it can be replaced. So I cribbed the slide out, and imaging my surprised when the ram that was supposed to be support the slide out fell down after I removed that last bolt holding it to the slide out. Yes the slide out was holding up the ram that was supposed to be supporting the slide out. The two broken bolts were then easy to spot.



So if any of you have experienced not being able to open your outside compartments and you think it got fixed you may want to have those bolts examined.

Pokgunner
My full wall slide seamed to be heavy on the front few slide to tile rollers. I replaced the rollers and in a few months I noticed them worn again.
I knew I had an adjustment problem.
I eye sighted the three ram ends with the slide out and they were not level. The last ram system was a bit lower to fit the design of the coach. This meant that all three ram adjustment could not be the same without being in a bind. I found this to be true as you did when I loosened the rear ram end bolts and it was in a bind. It was pulling down on the slide compared to the other two instead of assisting the weight of the slide.
I did as W.D. Suggested and called power gear to get the proper alignment procedures. They suggested that I call Winnebago which I did and they gave me the procedure. I readjusted all three Rams by the two end Rams first then split the difference with the mid ram. My slide operates twice a fast and I have had no more roller problems. I am sure something would have eventually broken. I believe the tech that originally adjusted my slide adjusted all 3 equally and didn't take into consideration that the rear ram system was lowered to fit the coach design.

I believe that your slide system has been in a bind from the beginning.
I would want to replace the bolts and adjust it so that it's not binding.
I also believe that the rite tech could do this work for you much quicker and for less money than you might think.
Jesse
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Old 05-10-2016, 09:27 AM   #4
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What year is your Adventurer? Winnebago has used different mechanisms over the years. Our 2013 Adventurer 32H with the full wall slide uses a Lippert system. In our case as the salesman mentioned the "slideout lock" only removes power from the switches. It doesn't do anything to physically lock the slide in place.

If you have a good working relationship with a dealer you may be able to get them to see if a manual for your slide system is available. I would suggest you call a local dealer and see if a "training manual" exists for your system. We were able to order a manual used to train technicians on the adjustments and repairs of the HWH slide on our 2001 Adventurer 32V. I would think similar training manuals exist for the Power Gear and Lippert slides. In most cases they aren't available to the general public. They are intended for dealer use, and have to be ordered by a dealer.
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Old 05-10-2016, 09:30 AM   #5
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Jbsmr:

I contacted Winnebago and the only thing they will tell me how to do is to adjust at the end of the bar even though I told then it was where the rollers are that I need help with.

Finding the right tech is like seeking the holy grail. The first time they broke I took it to three different techs all said the slide had to be removed.

You did raise and interesting point that the rams do not have to be on the same plain as long as they are in parallel. You also raised the rollers could ware, I did not think that would be noticeable. You now have me more concerned about welding the bracket in place. I wonder if it is suppose to be adjusted as the rollers wear.

I have emailed power gear but no response yet.
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Old 05-10-2016, 10:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by pokgunner View Post
Jbsmr:



I contacted Winnebago and the only thing they will tell me how to do is to adjust at the end of the bar even though I told then it was where the rollers are that I need help with.



Finding the right tech is like seeking the holy grail. The first time they broke I took it to three different techs all said the slide had to be removed.



You did raise and interesting point that the rams do not have to be on the same plain as long as they are in parallel. You also raised the rollers could ware, I did not think that would be noticeable. You now have me more concerned about welding the bracket in place. I wonder if it is suppose to be adjusted as the rollers wear.



I have emailed power gear but no response yet.

Pokgunner
Call Winnebago and ask them for your specific slide system make and model number. Let me know what they give you and I will get you the install and adjustment manual.
I believe the rollers need help due to the ram adjustments having the system in a bind. Lets get the install manual and understand where it was adjusted incorrectly first, then we will address the inner roller repair. I believe the middle ram has been holding most of the weight and that's why you have been having problems.
Jesse
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Old 05-10-2016, 01:46 PM   #7
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It is a 2010 using the Lippert system. I two was told that the "slide out lock" only removes power from the switches. But there is also a slide out lock switch that moves a lever that takes some of the weight off of the Lippert system when traveling. The Dealer failed to tell me that until after the bolts broke the first time.
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Old 05-10-2016, 02:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokgunner View Post
It is a 2010 using the Lippert system. I two was told that the "slide out lock" only removes power from the switches. But there is also a slide out lock switch that moves a lever that takes some of the weight off of the Lippert system when traveling. The Dealer failed to tell me that until after the bolts broke the first time.
Your slide system control system must be different than the one in our 2013 Adventurer. I just looked at the online slide out system wiring diagram for our coach and there definitely is no mechanical lockout feature.

http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_183594.pdf

Having said that we also have had a couple problems with the full wall slide. About 3 months after we took delivery (on our way to Alaska) we had a problem with the lower front corner not fully retracting. When we got back we had it repaired at the factory.

About 12 months later it started all over again. By now we were out of warranty, but we'd heard courtesy of this forum that Winnebago was making good will repairs on this system. We took it back to the factory and left it for a week. They determined the slide was not square to the opening in the wall. It was high at the rear causing a bind at the top front rack assembly and a gap at the lower front rack assembly.

They removed the entire slide, repositioned 2 of the 7 rollers on the house, removed the one at the rear that was causing the out of square problem, and added one under the kitchen island. In addition they replaced the front and rear racks on the slide and the motor and shaft mechanisms in the wall. This was all done at no cost to us other than getting the coach to the factory repair center in Forest City IA.

The slide now works perfectly. We've put several thousand miles on the coach since the repairs and everything works as it should.

Yours may be the first of the Lippert full wall slides. I would call the Winnebago service department to see if you can get yours repaired under the good will policy. You may have to take it to Forest City IA like we did, but it's well worth the time and money.
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Old 05-10-2016, 06:33 PM   #9
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To everybody:
Thanks for your input. Most of it I followed the first time the bolts broke. The short version of that ordeal is that, it was too low after I first drove it home from the dealer. They "fixed" it a few weeks later. Several months later it was too low again and the dealer "fixed" it under warranty. About 1 year after warranty it was too low again so I took it to another dealer.

That dealer told me they could only temporarily fix, without charging a lot more. Because a few of the heads that hold the slide to the ram were broke off (no doubt courtesy of the first dealer). It was this dealer that told me the real purpose of the locks. A few months later I decided to look at it to see if I could drill and tap out the broken bolts. Only then did I find the main problem, the two bolts that held the roller bracket.

That was when I tried to get Winnebago's help and they refused, because apparently the first dealer never recorded its "fixes" while under warranty. Believe me I would drive from Ca to Ia if Winnebago would fix it The extended warranty also refused to repair becasue they do not cover broken bolts.

I have since found a Winnebago drawing that calls for the top of the bar were the roller is located to be 3.3 inches (nominally) from the bottom of the floor, The two end ones are both 3-5/8". Surprisingly, before the bolts broke the middle one was closer to 3-3/4". I say surprisingly because that initially suggests that the middle one would be holding less weight than the end ones. Assuming the end of the bars are adjusted correctly.

However, since I have had this problem for so long the slide sages over 1/2 inches. So I think that when I had it repaired the roller bracket was installed within 1/8" of where it was suppose to be. But the dealer did not account for the sag, so when the slide was retracted the middle roller was effectively high by 3/8" and that is what broke it the second time.

I have become more convinced to just weld the roller bracket in place. becasue I think, if it later needs to be readjusted my worse case is not to remove the slide again but to cut the weld out adjust and weld again. The only question now is were to weld it; 3-5/8" like the ends and hope that the weld is strong enough to let the Slide bend back straight, or 4-1/4" and leave the sag permanent. I am leaning towards about 4" so as to not put tow much weight on the middle roller.

While I can find nothing definitive about how to adjust where the bars attached to the slide. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that suggest, that you do so, such that the bar is 1/8" closer to the slid out floor at the end than it is next to the coach, while making sure that all the bars are in parallel, side to side. Winnebago, has suggested that I adjust to match the trim piece, as if the trim has not moved. I plan on using the 1/8" difference as it makes more sense.

Understand this slide does nothing but hold weight, there is no motor on it. The slide seals completely, when in or out. And it moves in and out with no hint of binding. My only problem is that the middle slide is holding nothing and that has caused a 1/2' sage over about 24 feet.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:08 PM   #10
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In case some one reads this older post I want to follow up.

First power gear/lippert told me to talk to Winnebago. Winnebago told me that they have no instructions on how to adjust the roller bracket, but they did have instructions for where the slide mounts to the rams. .

The only slide that I could measure the mounting points for was the rear, and it was set dead level with the floor. Assuming this was correct I welded the middle bracket at the same height as the rear. And I adjusted the roller bracket at the front ram to be at the same height.

Everything seemed to work fine (the slide out sealed in both the in and out positions) but only after I adjusted the front stop bolt prevent, as strangely it was preventing full closure.

But then several cycles later the front motor quit working. I have yet to find out why. But in researching I found a site
https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/support/sheets/[/URL].
And out of desperation I looked at every sheet it lists, and that led me to this
https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/...2-S0295-00.pdf

It seems to be the very instructions I asked for, that neither Winnebago nor Lippert were willing to give me. If it applies to my rig ( I've asked Winnebago to confirm but have not heard back) I get to cut my welded piece out and re weld.
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Old 07-14-2016, 08:27 PM   #11
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Pokgunner
Have the same problem on my 09Journey 39Z. Have a large slide on the PS that has three rams with motors on the end ones. The centre one is passive and the RH bolt on the middle roller support has fractured twice. Last time under warranty, Winn raised the mechanism and welded the bolt back together. Lasted two years and broke about a week ago. Will insure they have a copy of the PG instruction you posted. Also like your idea of strengthening the brackets holding the roĺlers. Both times when mine failed, there was a loud rumble when the slide was moving. I suspect that this problem is widespread on the larger PG slides but not likely ever properly corrected. Will let you know how I make out - am at the GNR and made an appointment tdy to get it fixed - properly this time. I noticed the bolt that fractured was 7/16" or 1/2" . Don't know if those bolts should be larger but adding support to the bracket should alleviate the problem. Thanks for the timely update on your progress,
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Old 07-15-2016, 10:07 AM   #12
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Bobmac:

Although I am sorry for you, its good to know that someone else has experienced the same misery (misery likes company). I have been dealing with this since the month after I bought it, new, five years ago. I am 100% convinced that it was never aligned correctly at the factory, simply because there is scant information on how to align it. Over the years I have had three authorized Winnebago shops look at it and one unauthorized (who seems to be more competent), but clearly none of them knew the proper alignment. After al it was I that found the sheared bolts, not any of them.

Tim (hikerdogs) Jorgensen on this site wrote me to suggest that Winnebago knows they have a problem in this mater but does not want to admit it. He told me to contact Mike Hamson at Winnebago and gave me hope that Mike would help, suggesting that Winnebago would even pay for some of the cost of the repair. When I contacted Mike I was clear that at this point I did not expect and finical help, I just wanted Winnebago to give me the info needed to repair it.

He passed me up the chain of command. Who said they would not give me any help; “We will (sic) not have a procedure on how to make adjustments to the slide”. They further said I should not weld it and that I should take it to “someone that is familiar with slide outs”. They did not tell me who that someone might be or where I might find him. But at least they did not tell me to take it to an authorized service center. I guess they figured out how useless that is.

I find it frustrating that Winnebago repaired yours by welding it when they recommended that I do not do so. I welded in a solid piece approx. 1.5” x 6” and even took the effort to weld on the backside (a lot of fun using a mirror in such a confined space) so I know the weld will not brake like yours, but worry that the support bracket might. Mine made no noticeable noise when they sheared. I am pretty sure it happens when hitting a bump while travelling.

It seems that Winnebago knows that when it comes to this matter they have a problem with the design, installation, and/or training of repair techs, but do not want to admit it. By way of covering this up they refuse to offer any help, not even the information needed to fix the problem. It is truly stunning. More so after I seemed to have stumbled on the very instructions that Winnebago says they do not have.

And most frustrating is that Winnebago could have avoided this by adding a few dollars for larger bolts or perhaps thicker steel at no additional labor costs. Better yet for a couple of hundred they could have added means to access the bolts when they break (bedsides removing the slide at a cost of thousands), or for a little more added rollers to the outside edge of the flooring for the slide to rest on when traveling.

BTW, I have since learned, on my own, that the slide locks have nothing to do with supporting weight as the tech at one of their authorized service centers told me. He said that is why the slide out was sagging (also he was clueless about the broken bolts). So my not using the locks did not cause the problem. Winnebago is 100% to blame, I did nothing to cause the problem.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:49 AM   #13
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Guess I've joined the "broken bolt" club. Last time I opened the full wall slide on my 2011 Suncruiser 32h, I noticed that the water bay door scraped the bottom of the slide. Initially thought that the door needed adjustment, but sadly not so. Today discovered that the two main bolts for the middle roller bracket had sheared even with the top mounting bracket. Can't see where removing the slide makes getting the bolt heads out any easier. How did any of you manage to get them out?
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:57 PM   #14
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I don't believe you can not remove the broken head section without raising the slide itself. Evidently you cannot replace the bolt without removing the slideout.
Winnebago will fix by welding the two sections together and that should get thru their warranty period of 90 days but won't likely last more than a couple of years. Alternatively, they welded the head of a new bolt to the bottom of the roller. More surface area for the weld to hold but don't know how long it will last but I am betting over 90 days. Winnebago - Hamson included - implied I had 35K miles on it and should expect bolts to fracture. I expressed total disagreement. Seems Winnebago can never admit to screwing up a design and are unwilling to make good a bad situation on their dime. Their "dime" for me on the third fracture was over $300.
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