Fixed - Thermopane Window Moisture Problem

Mike in Florida · 12-04-2007, 06:25 AM

Like many of you, I have lived with a water condensation problem in the Atwood (Excel) windows in my Winnebago Industries MH.

After reading a lot of discussion, and waiting impatiently for NHTSA, Winnebago or Atwood to step up on this issue, I decided to try and do something myself. I wanted to share my success, and let everyone know that by doing the labor myself, it didn't cost anywhere near the horrific quotes that I have seen posted by some coach owners.

I had a serious condensation problem in the now infamous small angled window between the drivers door and the windshield, as well as in the top eyebrow window and stationary glass on the passenger side of the coach. On the drivers side there was enough moisture between the panes that it had become a safety issue, and the passenger side was likewise becoming a similar concern, as the window was fogging and I could no longer clearly see the side mirror.

In my quest for solutions, I started with my local Winnebago/Itasca dealer who quoted me $465 + S/H just for the drivers side slant window. After haggling with them a little, I got them down to $364, as now they were doing me a favor... In a state of shock, I moved on, and continued hoping I would find a more cost effective solution.

I culled the Winnebago website and got the part numbers for my windows from the on-line build sheets. I emailed Atwood hoping for some help, any help. Atwood quoted me $274 for the drivers side slant window assembly, and $485 for the passenger side window assembly.

Still seeking a cost effective solution, I decided to remove the window and drill small holes through the frame to allow the window to breathe, which others had suggested. After a couple of days with little signifcant progress, I remembered reading a post from someone who had bought just the glass from Atwood, and recalled that it was relatively inexpensive. I shot back a request for a "glass only" quote, and Atwood did respond. The "glass only" quote was SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the assembled price, and allowed me to move forward with the replacement of these windows.

BOTTOM LINE : I got the three (3) thermopane windows delivered to my door within three (3) business days for a total cost of $127.

My original intent was to take the new glass and the coach to my local auto glass guy and have him install the widows. However, after mentioning that he would be all too happy to take my money, he convinced me that I could do it myself, and gave me a few pointers. Since I had experience removing and resealing windows in a previous coach, I wasn't intimidated by that process. To say the least, it is time consuming, and quite frankly a PITA, but well worth the cost savings.

I have taken some photo's along the way, and would be happy to share the details of the replacement process. All in all, I replaced all three (3) windows for about $140, plus my time.

I would simply offer my opinion that there is a cost effective solution to this all too common problem. On the difficulty scale, the job turned out to be a "4 or 5" on a 1 to 10 scale, and it didn't require any special tools.

I remain disappointed that neither Atwood nor Winnebago has assumed a position of leadership on this issue, as it is clearly something they should be gravely concenrned about. With that having been said, I did get GREAT customer service from the Atwood - West Union facility.

Mike in Florida · 12-04-2007, 06:25 AM

Like many of you, I have lived with a water condensation problem in the Atwood (Excel) windows in my Winnebago Industries MH.

After reading a lot of discussion, and waiting impatiently for NHTSA, Winnebago or Atwood to step up on this issue, I decided to try and do something myself. I wanted to share my success, and let everyone know that by doing the labor myself, it didn't cost anywhere near the horrific quotes that I have seen posted by some coach owners.

I had a serious condensation problem in the now infamous small angled window between the drivers door and the windshield, as well as in the top eyebrow window and stationary glass on the passenger side of the coach. On the drivers side there was enough moisture between the panes that it had become a safety issue, and the passenger side was likewise becoming a similar concern, as the window was fogging and I could no longer clearly see the side mirror.

In my quest for solutions, I started with my local Winnebago/Itasca dealer who quoted me $465 + S/H just for the drivers side slant window. After haggling with them a little, I got them down to $364, as now they were doing me a favor... In a state of shock, I moved on, and continued hoping I would find a more cost effective solution.

I culled the Winnebago website and got the part numbers for my windows from the on-line build sheets. I emailed Atwood hoping for some help, any help. Atwood quoted me $274 for the drivers side slant window assembly, and $485 for the passenger side window assembly.

Still seeking a cost effective solution, I decided to remove the window and drill small holes through the frame to allow the window to breathe, which others had suggested. After a couple of days with little signifcant progress, I remembered reading a post from someone who had bought just the glass from Atwood, and recalled that it was relatively inexpensive. I shot back a request for a "glass only" quote, and Atwood did respond. The "glass only" quote was SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the assembled price, and allowed me to move forward with the replacement of these windows.

BOTTOM LINE : I got the three (3) thermopane windows delivered to my door within three (3) business days for a total cost of $127.

My original intent was to take the new glass and the coach to my local auto glass guy and have him install the widows. However, after mentioning that he would be all too happy to take my money, he convinced me that I could do it myself, and gave me a few pointers. Since I had experience removing and resealing windows in a previous coach, I wasn't intimidated by that process. To say the least, it is time consuming, and quite frankly a PITA, but well worth the cost savings.

I have taken some photo's along the way, and would be happy to share the details of the replacement process. All in all, I replaced all three (3) windows for about $140, plus my time.

I would simply offer my opinion that there is a cost effective solution to this all too common problem. On the difficulty scale, the job turned out to be a "4 or 5" on a 1 to 10 scale, and it didn't require any special tools.

I remain disappointed that neither Atwood nor Winnebago has assumed a position of leadership on this issue, as it is clearly something they should be gravely concenrned about. With that having been said, I did get GREAT customer service from the Atwood - West Union facility.

rvcarpenter · 12-04-2007, 07:51 AM

Can you post the pictures I bet a lot of people would be interested.

DonavonP · 12-04-2007, 07:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike in Florida:
I have taken some photo's along the way, and would be happy to share the details of the replacement process. Al in all, I replaced all three (3) windows for about $140, plus my time.
. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to hear and see more. Pictures if you can. Thanks.

Is Plexiglas an option??

dirko · 12-04-2007, 08:10 AM

Hi Ho: Great information! When my side window had that problem I just didn't have time to fool with it. Your post made me think of another possibility that I was going to try. If you drill a hole so that there is access between the panes of glass what is really needed to get rid of the water vapor is vacuum. I believe that they are normally filled with argon or some other inert gas. Even dry nitrogen would be ok. Obviously the seal is broken somewhere. The questin is where. I suspect that when the vacuum pump is applied one might be able to find the leak and fix it. Has anyone tried to do this?

Thaks, Dirk

Duner · 12-04-2007, 11:53 AM

Mike, that's really good news for a very expensive problem. I wonder if others can get similiar low prices from Atwood for "glass only" or do we have to jump thru hoops to get your results. I'm like you, I'll spend many of my own hours on a repair to save hundreds of dollars if the results will look good.

Mike, if you could add info about your coach to your signature, it would help us know more details about your experience. I was wondering if your widows are tinted, any have rounded corners, and what year it was made?

Thanks for the great post.
Duner

David K · 12-04-2007, 02:32 PM

Mike, like the others, I would love to hear if any of us can get the good pricing from Atwood for glass only. Also, maybe you can post the pictures of your fix in the photo section of this forum. Would love to see and then maybe I can tackle the same project on my MH. I have the driver's side window and the window in the door is the other problem.

B K · 12-04-2007, 03:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dirk Ostermiller:
Hi Ho: Great information! When my side window had that problem I just didn't have time to fool with it. Your post made me think of another possibility that I was going to try. If you drill a hole so that there is access between the panes of glass what is really needed to get rid of the water vapor is vacuum. I believe that they are normally filled with argon or some other inert gas. Even dry nitrogen would be ok. Obviously the seal is broken somewhere. The questin is where. I suspect that when the vacuum pump is applied one might be able to find the leak and fix it. Has anyone tried to do this?

Thaks, Dirk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How about using one of those cans of compressed nitrogen used for cleaning keyboards, etc. Check for leaks with soapy water. Then plug all holes. Adding heat would help too.

jfb · 12-04-2007, 06:35 PM

We were fortunate that we spotted the defective window within days of taking delivery of our 2005 Itasca. Missed it on the walk-thru. Winn. replaced the whole window/frame assy....

Izzyblueye · 12-05-2007, 06:14 AM

MIKE IN FLORIDA: Great post. It is too cold now to tackle a job like this, but it sure interest me in warmer times. I like the way you addressed every one of the problems (especially the lack of support from NHTSA, Winnebago and most of all ATWOOD). At least what you did was bring the DYI cost down with in reason and made getting rid of a serious safety hazard cost effective. I also would like to see your pictures THANKS.

Mike in Florida · 12-05-2007, 12:41 PM

OK guys, my coach is A 2002 Itasca Suncruiser 37G.

I apparently don't have the permissions necessary to post pictures... I was thinking about either creating an MS word type document explaining the process, complete with pictures or setting up a personal website.

Assuming I can get the permissions necessary to post, does it allow some type of explanation to go with the pictures ?

As far as the "special pricing", I just sent a cold email to Atwood. It apparently bounced around their system for a couple of days, as my initial reply had a number of comments from about 4 or 5 different Atwood representatives. When it finally landed at the West Union facility, I got very timely, professional, customer oriented service.

Start with the Winnebago website, and use the build sheets to identify the Winnebago part numbers. Next to the item description it will show the Vendor Number", which is the Atwood part number. They can cross reference it for you, if your not able to find it. If you need help finding the part numbers, PM me, and I'll try and help you.

NeilV · 12-05-2007, 01:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike in Florida:
OK guys, my coach is A 2002 Itasca Suncruiser 37G.

I apparently don't have the permissions necessary to post pictures... I was thinking about either creating an MS word type document explaining the process, complete with pictures or setting up a personal website.

Assuming I can get the permissions necessary to post, does it allow some type of explanation to go with the pictures ?

As far as the "special pricing", I just sent a cold email to Atwood. It apparently bounced around their system for a couple of days, as my initial reply had a number of comments from about 4 or 5 different Atwood representatives. When it finally landed at the West Union facility, I got very timely, professional, customer oriented service.

Start with the Winnebago website, and use the build sheets to identify the Winnebago part numbers. Next to the item description it will show the Vendor Number", which is the Atwood part number. They can cross reference it for you, if your not able to find it. If you need help finding the part numbers, PM me, and I'll try and help you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike,

I was under the impression that in Florida there is 100% coverage on any glass in the drivers area that was cracked or obscured. did you try to put in a claim?

Bill Gotthelf · 12-05-2007, 03:12 PM

I believe that in Florida the insurance regulations refer to crack windows, not obscured windows, being replace at no charge by your insurance company if you have comp and collison.

Izzyblueye · 12-05-2007, 03:34 PM

Same thing here in Ohio, fogged windows will not qualify, even if they are a safety hazard.

Mike in Florida · 12-05-2007, 03:36 PM

Neil,

I've read that about Florida, but I believe that it apply's only to broken or cracked glass. It is my opinion that obscured glass is excluded.

As Bill, and many others can attest, because of the INSANE insurance situation here in Florida, I am extremely reluctant to file any kind of insurance claim in fear that my homeowners insurance would be cancelled.

That may seem crazy, but Florida has become the land of the haves and the have not. Those that have had their insurance summarily and unilaterilly cancelled, and those that haven't YET been cancelled. I live on the coast, and my insurance company (State Farm) just announced another 50,000 Florida cancellations. Since State Farm ties their home and auto policies together, that becomes a huge risk to take.

peter griffin · 05-19-2008, 11:20 AM

atwood sent me the replacement glass under warranty. What seals the glass to the rv? They did not provide a seal or any tpe of material such as silcone. Does anyone have any sugesstions on how to set the window. It looks pretty simple and is a two piece design with screws on one side. It is the fixed window next to the drivers seat.

Mike in Florida · 05-19-2008, 01:48 PM

Pete, I sent you a PM.

nanasheetz · 06-15-2008, 02:24 PM

i just got my window and i am trying to get the window out and it is not coming out do you now how to get it out i can not see out the drive side window so the camper sit any help would be great

Mike in Florida · 06-15-2008, 04:15 PM

Ronal, I sent you a PM.

Duner · 06-15-2008, 06:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike in Florida:
.... I apparently don't have the permissions necessary to post pictures... I was thinking about either creating an MS word type document explaining the process, complete with pictures or setting up a personal website...... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike, many of us on IRV2 use Photobucket to upload our pictures. You won't need any special permissions from IRV2 to post a link to your pictures.

Once you upload your pic's to Photobucket, you copy the link listed below each picture, then paste the link in your IRV2 posting. The link should have [IMG] before and [/IMG] after link. The first time you do it you may find you used too large or too small of resolution. But then you can upload it again to size it right. I believe around 640x480 or 600x400 is a good compromise size. You can have captions in Photobucket but they won't show up here. You can just type instruction in posting, insert the link and repeat for each picture.

I have some self-interest in helping you get the instructions posted here because about 3 months ago my 1st window fogged up. It's the big "vista window" above the drivers door (39"x14"). I looked up the part # and ordered from Atwood ($69+20 shipping). It arrived this week - I'll pick it up tomorrow.

Thanks for your help on this.