Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-08-2015, 08:30 PM   #1
Winnebago Owner
 
Jupiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 181
Coleman A/C fan upgrade - 6 blade to 3 blade

2013 36M with Coleman A/C's

As many of you know the late model Coleman rooftop A/C units are terribly noisy on the outside. They sound like mini turbines with the high speed 6 blade condenser fan. So, as some of you have suggested I contacted Coleman and bought two new 3 blade replacement fans for this particular model Coleman.

Good news - the noise level outside has reduced to a tolerable level.

The BAD news - The noise inside has dramatically increased from what I would describe as a harmonic vibration that is ridiculously unacceptable. Has anyone else upgraded to the 3 blade fan and experienced a similar increase with interior noise level? I'm thoroughly disgusted with Winnebago for using this annoying loud model to begin with, and now even more disgusted that the new fan blades seems to have amplified the noise level on the inside.

I'm thinking that the new blades may not be properly balanced. The 6 blade fans had a small balance weight on one of the blade and the new fan has no balance weight on any blade. The noise inside is not a steady hum or vibration. It's more like a harmonic sound like a rum..rum..rum..rum.. etc.

At this point I'm ready to seek total rooftop replacements with a brand that actually functions with a NORMAL noise level. And did I mention that two rooftops on the 36M are marginal at best in terms of cooling capacity in hot weather.

Yup... been on the road a few days now with the new fans and today I am not a very happy Winnebago camper

Joopy
Jupiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 09:03 PM   #2
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sealy, Tx
Posts: 22
I just replaced a three bladed fan today as it started to self destruct, one of the blades cracked from the edge to the hub, sounded like a helo crash landing on the roof. I was able to purchase a replacement from 6 Robbles here in Anchorage, forget getting help from Winnebago. I have one unit with a three blade and one with a six, if I could find another six bladed fan that is what I would go with on both units.
j.smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 07:32 AM   #3
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5
Greetings. I just finished replacing the 6 blade with the 3 blade D version fans, and I noticed the harmonic beat. Its about 1 or 2 hz. It only is heard at certain points inside the coach. I am going to adjust the hold down bolts to see if that makes a difference. Mine have springs on them. I also put sound absorbing material around the inside fan plenum and against the cover. My coach is now quieter inside.
Jim 15 Forza 34T TX
oopypic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 03:37 PM   #4
Winnebago Master
 
grtharris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Skiatook, OK
Posts: 1,407
Jupiter Yes I put the new fan blades on and took them off because of the hum inside the coach. I'm thinking about trying them again. I had to remove the rear AC unit to install a power delay (long story) and found the hold down screw springs completely compressed, only supposed to be 80% compressed. So I'm going to see if that makes a difference.
Here is a thread with lots of good info about the fan blades.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/rvp-...it-210236.html
__________________
Grant & Pat
2014 Adventurer 35P
2012 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
grtharris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 07:30 PM   #5
Winnie-Wise
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The hilly part of Texas
Posts: 265
Coleman Hush Kit

Joopy, same problem with noise. I Macgyvered a satisfactory solution. Quiet inside and out. First, you need more than the revised fan. The kit should include a U shaped support for the "bendy" plastic cover. The cover bends down and rubs against the pipe off the compressor. The support keeps it from vibrating against the compressor.....

The cover/bonnet is a thin plastic and has no strengthing ribs molded into it. Essentially it is a drum head that sympathetically resonates with the vibration of the fan and the compressor.

The plastic cover for the evaporator is heavier but is also a resonating surface that picks up noise and vibration from the internal squirrel cage and from all the other racket going on under the bonnet.

What to do? First, check,that the rubber isolator so on the fan motor and compressor are good. Install the fan and make ABSOLUTELY sure there is at least 1/4-5/8" clearance between the tips and the metal electrical box. Tips hitting the box is the cause of fan failure. You cannot increase the height of the fan by adding a spacer.

The problem with the bonnet is solved by adding "mass damping" material to the underside. I used butyl aluminum faced roofing tape applied to the underside of the bonnet. Aside from stiffening and adding mass it also insulates.

The box over the expansion coil and internal fan was covered with aluminum foil HVAC tape. Space is limited here and it was the easy solution...and it reflects heat and solar radiation.

The unit is now so quiet you can barely hear it running when standing outside near the rear wheels of my View. Inside almost all of the mechanical noise and drumming is gone and you hear only duct noise.

I'll post my write up and photos here tomorrow...
Old Crows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 06:29 AM   #6
Winnebago Camper
 
Hagenl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dixon, IL
Posts: 16
Fan Replacement

I had the 3 blade replacement from Air Excel at GNR in 2014. It had a "B" in the model number and one blew up last weekend. I got 2 "D" model fans at no charge and installed them. The front was just fine but the rear was too close to the metal cover over the wiring. I removed the nut under the rear side of that cover and fastened it back down so no problem on the metal box cover. However the fan rubbed against the top plastic cover at startup and shut down so I shimmed up the lower right corner of the roof cover and solved that too. Not a whole lot of tolerance around these blades and I hope the "D" models actually hold up. We leave the air on lots of times when away from the coach and a fan blow up could lead to any number of nightmares. Air Excel (RVP) replaced them without any questions except serial # of the air conditioner units.
Hagenl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 09:19 AM   #7
Winnebago Owner
 
Jupiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 181
Thank you all very much for the informative responses! I now have a few ideas to try to make our coach livable again. I contacted Winnebago but I'm not holding my breath for a solution from them. So disappointing that they would specify such a poorly engineered component. I still think the 3 blade is not balanced which creates much of the vibration. Beyond the vibration issue, one concern is that eventually the out of balance condition can wipe out the condenser fan motor bearings.

OLD CROWS - looking forward to your write up and photos. Looks like you made a big impact on the noise level. Thanks for sharing.

Oh, and I still have the 6 blade fans if all else fails, but then I'm back to square one.

cheers,
Joopy
Jupiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 07:19 AM   #8
Winnie-Wise
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The hilly part of Texas
Posts: 265
Sorry for the delay Folks.... I realized I had to update my work. The link below should take you to a description of how I MacGyvered my unit.

Joopy, Athough I have a prop balancer for my RC planes, I did not attempt 'balance' the new fan. It has a balance weight on it and it is probably 'good enough.' I did carefully scrape and sand off all the 'flash' and molding marks on the edges of the blades so that they are smooth and clean. It's a really cheap moulding and needs work!!!! The idea here was to get the smoothest air penetration and departure over the blade. Those small imperfections create vortices and all kinds of mayhem leading to increased noise..... probably lost inside the unit... but nevertheless!

I'm generally not inclined to complain about stuff but become more motivated when ignored; told I don't know what I'm talking about; or suffer disparate treatment ..... Clearly, Coleman has a long standing issue with extreme noise from these units (15K heat pump) as evidenced by the many threads and complaints on the internet. As we know, there is a 'fix' ... but only available to who stumble upon it and who complain. Still, the Coleman solution is uneven and disparate ... not everyone benefits from the 'secret' improvement.

When you're shopping a new $100K+ .... hell, even a less expensive model.... one expects that the manufacturer's have done their due diligence and scoped out such a sensitive issue as 'noise abatement' in their product. Folks like QUIET in the RV park and elsewhere. While Coleman is directly responsible for the miserably loud performance of their unit, I also hold Winnebago responsible for continuing to install these beasts on their otherwise nice units. Winnebago could put the muscle on and help their customers (and those who are within earshot of these crappy units). Winnebago and other manufacturers need to lean heavily on Coleman to retrofit every unit ever installed at Coleman's expense. The alternative is to never have another Coleman product on the production line.... That should fix it....

Here's the linky: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzX...ew?usp=sharing
Old Crows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 09:29 AM   #9
Winnebago Owner
 
Triker56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 107
Hummmm!! I just went outside and my 15K Coleman front Heat pump(New 9/17/13) and the rear 13.5k AC(New 6/28/12) sounds the same. But are both quieter then my neighbors newer looking Dometic AC's.

Inside I hear no noise from the roof fans. But maybe my roof has better insulation that blocks out any noise inside.

There is the regular inside fan noise. But no louder or quieter then any other AC I have had in any RV the last 40 years.
__________________
99 Discovery 34Q ISB
2014 MKS AWD EcoBoost Toad
Fulltime Since "99"
Triker56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 12:44 PM   #10
Winnebago Owner
 
Jupiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Crows View Post
Sorry for the delay Folks.... I realized I had to update my work. The link below should take you to a description of how I MacGyvered my unit.

Joopy, Athough I have a prop balancer for my RC planes, I did not attempt 'balance' the new fan. It has a balance weight on it and it is probably 'good enough.' I did carefully scrape and sand off all the 'flash' and molding marks on the edges of the blades so that they are smooth and clean. It's a really cheap moulding and needs work!!!! The idea here was to get the smoothest air penetration and departure over the blade. Those small imperfections create vortices and all kinds of mayhem leading to increased noise..... probably lost inside the unit... but nevertheless!

I'm generally not inclined to complain about stuff but become more motivated when ignored; told I don't know what I'm talking about; or suffer disparate treatment ..... Clearly, Coleman has a long standing issue with extreme noise from these units (15K heat pump) as evidenced by the many threads and complaints on the internet. As we know, there is a 'fix' ... but only available to who stumble upon it and who complain. Still, the Coleman solution is uneven and disparate ... not everyone benefits from the 'secret' improvement.

When you're shopping a new $100K+ .... hell, even a less expensive model.... one expects that the manufacturer's have done their due diligence and scoped out such a sensitive issue as 'noise abatement' in their product. Folks like QUIET in the RV park and elsewhere. While Coleman is directly responsible for the miserably loud performance of their unit, I also hold Winnebago responsible for continuing to install these beasts on their otherwise nice units. Winnebago could put the muscle on and help their customers (and those who are within earshot of these crappy units). Winnebago and other manufacturers need to lean heavily on Coleman to retrofit every unit ever installed at Coleman's expense. The alternative is to never have another Coleman product on the production line.... That should fix it....

Here's the linky: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzX...ew?usp=sharing
Wow... thank you OLD CROW for sharing your write up. You've really put forth significant effort in to both the "fix" and the article.

I'm on the road at the moment but intend to carefully read every word in detail when I return home next week. I couldn't agree more that both Coleman and Winnebago should be ashamed to have this product on motorhomes today. And I ultimately hold Winnebago responsible because they chose they specified this unit and therefore should be responsible to do the right thing and either recall this product or at the least offer a reasonable "fix" for their customers. I've contacted Winnebago via their website several days ago asking for a solution but have yet to hear back from them.

Interesting how the auto industry can offer millions of service bulletins (not to be confused with recalls for safety items) for faulty auto components but the RV industry seems to be exempt from such a customer satisfier. I guess they do it... because they can.

Thanks again, Old Crow for your effort and willingness to share!

Joopy
Jupiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 01:12 PM   #11
Winnie-Wise
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The hilly part of Texas
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter View Post
Wow... thank you OLD CROW for sharing your write up. You've really put forth significant effort in to both the "fix" and the article.

I'm on the road at the moment but intend to carefully read every word in detail when I return home next week. I couldn't agree more that both Coleman and Winnebago should be ashamed to have this product on motorhomes today. And I ultimately hold Winnebago responsible because they chose they specified this unit and therefore should be responsible to do the right thing and either recall this product or at the least offer a reasonable "fix" for their customers. I've contacted Winnebago via their website several days ago asking for a solution but have yet to hear back from them.

Interesting how the auto industry can offer millions of service bulletins (not to be confused with recalls for safety items) for faulty auto components but the RV industry seems to be exempt from such a customer satisfier. I guess they do it... because they can.

Thanks again, Old Crow for your effort and willingness to share!

Joopy
Thanks for the flowers!

Maybe Winnebego is my next project. Over all we love the View Profile and there are very, very few issues. Three to be exact... the noisy HP; a failed LP regulator in 14 months (there is a story here about mine and my View's sister owned by my neighbor); and, some screwed up gaskets & cross threaded fittings in the H & C water lines at the shower valve behind the shower wall.

They are not keen on answering calls or emails.

Yes, I think RV manufacturer's have not joined the 21st Century regarding customer satisfaction/follow up/attending to details/not proactive. Maybe I'm spoiled by customer service at my Toyota and Mercedes Store .... NOT! "You want Starbucks with that croissant?" "Your Camry had a smudge on the hood.... we' washed it for you....."

Unless you purchased a $500K + rig, you don't have their attention. RV companies remind one of the General Motors of the '60s thru 90s. "It got you off the showroom floor didn't it?? Quit yer bitchin'!!!!!"

PM me if directions are not clear.

Peace,

The Crow
Old Crows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 02:02 PM   #12
Winnie-Wise
 
ernieh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 295
There have been clearance issues between the AC base pan and the roof. This can be caused by improperly torqued hold down bolts, but some have added spacers ( think rubber door stop wedges) between the roof and base pan.

Those who have done this claim that it makes a big difference.


Although my AC's don't use the same fan, I have installed several for other folks and have found at least 3 or 4 broken fan motor mounts in the process.


It's absolutely amazing to me how a manufacturer with years of experience can suddenly produce a unit with so many issues.
__________________
ernieh
2012 Phaeton 36QSH
2007 Wrangler Toad
ernieh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 03:11 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Troy Mo
Posts: 2
Exclamation

You might want to look at the ENTEGRA site. We started replacing these fans a yr. ago. Make sure you have what they call a hat that sits on top of the electric box and holds the a/c shroud off the condenser fan. Also if you have any three blade fan that's not the D model you are subject to having a fan failure. The older B&C model fans start getting egg shaped and cracks start appearing in the hub at the blade root, usually after about three months of operation. The new D fans became available in March so if you have anything older that about April 1st it's not a D model fan. I have had prototype D models for about five months and haven't had any problems with them. I had several failures with the B&C models.
You can find the p/n xxxxDxxxx stamped into the top of the blades. I would advise anyone with any three blade fan other than a D to replace it and make sure you have the metal "hat" on top of the electric box. When installing the fans make sure the blade tips clear the electric box. All you need is approx 3/16 in and you can add a spacer under the fan if needed to achieve the clearance. I used nylon washers on mine.
loisjop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2015, 08:37 AM   #14
Winnebago Owner
 
Jupiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 181
Thanks for the response, Noel. Yes, a previous poster provided a link to the Entegra thread which was very informative. I'm soaking it all in so I can try to resolve or at least improve the condition to the point of a reasonable noise level.

I sincerely appreciate all the great responses! And, I'm betting others appreciate the informative postings, too.

cheers,
Joopy
Jupiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fan, upgrade


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fan-Tastic Fan upgrade ....NOT jerichorick General Maintenance and Repair 8 03-02-2015 11:14 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Winnebago Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.