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Old 12-30-2006, 05:33 PM   #1
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I will pick up my new 2006 36ft Journey in about one more week and I would like to know if there are any engine upgrades available for the caterpillar 7.2 diesel engine. My two friends are running the cummins 8.3 engines in their Alpine coaches and I would just like to have a competitive edge on the hills.
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Old 12-30-2006, 05:33 PM   #2
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I will pick up my new 2006 36ft Journey in about one more week and I would like to know if there are any engine upgrades available for the caterpillar 7.2 diesel engine. My two friends are running the cummins 8.3 engines in their Alpine coaches and I would just like to have a competitive edge on the hills.
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Old 12-31-2006, 06:59 AM   #3
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Sammie
If I were you,let your freinds have the competitive edge.More POWER translates to MORE fuel consumption .They may get to their destination only minutes ahead of you.
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Old 01-01-2007, 06:01 AM   #4
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You could check with Gale Banks, or post out on one of the Diesel Forums... But I agree with Ed.

More power, will mean you will use more fuel. It also means you will take away some of the longevity of the engine. There is always a trade off. Being that it is a new unit, I would really hesitate since you could easily put your warrenty in jepordy.

Recently I installed the VMS box and software on my laptop... Power is Evil when it comes to mileage. It has shown me alot about how to drive the coach for maxium fuel economy. When you look at the numbers on how much load and work the engine does between 60 and 70, you'll drive 60. On mine the I will burn 4 gallons an hour more at 70, to me that is about $10.00 an hour I am wasting, only to arrive 10 mins. sooner. So not worth it.

Just my thoughts. Hop you enjoy the new coach!

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Old 01-01-2007, 07:20 AM   #5
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Sammie,

I think you already have the competitive edge, you will have a Winnebago Journey! I bet you will be faster off the line and I'm not sure you will be running behind them up the hills. Time will tell but I agree with the previous posts---don't mess with it! Happy New Year and enjoy the new coach!

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Old 01-01-2007, 07:37 AM   #6
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My understanding is that there are no upgrades available for the C7. However, my personal experience with upgrades (full Banks kit on a Chevy Duramax) is that it worked good but did funny things to the engine and computer that the factory software didn't understand. Constantly flipping the check engine light on due to mixture and exhaust temp readings that were too high according to the factory software. It really drove me nuts. All that said, we have an 07 Winnebago Journey 34H with the CAT C7 now. We pull a 10,000lbs traler. Last trip out, the coach+trailer was nearly maxed out at 36,000lbs. The C7 performed flawlessly. Slowed down to maybe 50 on the biggest hill. My opinion is the C7 has all the power you'll ever need, and it is as the factory intended it to be as it sits. Hope my opinion helps. Good luck.
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Old 01-01-2007, 07:39 AM   #7
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sammie,

your Cat 7.2,more commonly called the C7 engine, is mfg to be setup for either 300, 330, or 350 HP by Cat. you didnt say which rating you're buying, but assuming its the most common 330 HP; the simpleset upgrade would be to pay a Cat shop to upgrade it to the 350 HP rating. This is done purely by changing the settings of the electronic engine control unit (ECU). Cat would also have to verify that your unit's chassis builder supplied components are capable of handling the additional HP.

PS: I drive a 28,000 lb MH, towing a 4000 lb toad, powered by a Cat C7 330HP and I have no problem passing others going up hill.

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Old 01-01-2007, 10:41 AM   #8
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Sammie,

I agree with the other posts. My CAT C7 350 hp is plenty of power for a 34/36' Journey.

Check the posts on the use of the 'Mode' button (economy mode). If you want to keep your speed going up hills, do not use the economy mode -- this will downshift you a little sooner keeping your speed up a little more. Let the Allison do its job downshifting, and it will keep you going up the hills with no problems.

Good luck on your new coach!
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Old 01-01-2007, 12:24 PM   #9
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My understanding is that there are no upgrades available for the C7. However, my personal experience with upgrades (full Banks kit on a Chevy Duramax) is that it worked good but did funny things to the engine and computer that the factory software didn't understand. Constantly flipping the check engine light on due to mixture and exhaust temp readings that were too high according to the factory software. It really drove me nuts. All that said, we have an 07 Winnebago Journey 34H with the CAT C7 now. We pull a 10,000lbs traler. Last trip out, the coach+trailer was nearly maxed out at 36,000lbs. The C7 performed flawlessly. Slowed down to maybe 50 on the biggest hill. My opinion is the C7 has all the power you'll ever need, and it is as the factory intended it to be as it sits. Hope my opinion helps. Good luck.
Alan </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alan If you pull a 10,000lbs trailer do you have more than 500 lbs on the hitch or not worry about it my 34 winnebago has a 10000 lbs tow cap but 5oo lbs on hitch i have 10% more than my trailer 7500 lbs rip
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Old 01-01-2007, 02:00 PM   #10
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Sammie:

I agree with the others here...the CAT will do fine. We took our first trip out West this past September pulling our 4700 lb Explorer...when I weighed, I was about 33,000 lb total. I was prepared for the 330 CAT to struggle on steep grades in Colorado, SD, etc. I was impressed, not only with the ease of hill climbing but with the effectiveness of the simple exhaust brake. A similar rig with the 8.3 Cummins may outrun me up a steep grade but ask me if I really care
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Old 01-01-2007, 04:00 PM   #11
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The 2006 Journey 36G Cat 7.2 is a 350 HP engine. It comes with the 6 speed allison transmission on a Freightliner chassis. The Journey may be lighter than your friends Alpine coaches which may not give them any advantage over yours. I don't think you can change your HP by calibrating your computer. All the C7 cats have the same tourque rating, so I don't think the chassis would be any different.
Does anyone know if there is any mechanical differences between the 300, 330, 350 HP engines?
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:01 AM   #12
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Alan If you pull a 10,000lbs trailer do you have more than 500 lbs on the hitch or not worry about it my 34 winnebago has a 10000 lbs tow cap but 5oo lbs on hitch i have 10% more than my trailer 7500 lbs rip </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alright, I'll probably catch **** from a lot of people on this post, but here goes... My 34H also states 500# max tongue weight, and the manual says not to use a weight distributing hitch, though the Freightliner part of the manual states that is important to have about 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue (which as we all know at 10,000#, is 1,000#). Gotta love it when the two can't agree! Anyway, I have not actually weighed my tongue weight separately but assume as with most trailers, it is designed to put about 10% on the tongue, so probably have about 1000#. I do use a weight distributing hitch. I understand the argument that with the overhang, it can't distribute the weight to the front properly, and Winnebago "does not recommend" the use of a WD hitch, but overhand or not, it will distribute SOME of the weight, which will help to bring it back toward the 500# mark. In the end, my trailer is actually a bit over weight (too many toys), and the end result on my rear axle, fully loaded, with the trailer, is 17,560#, which as we all know is 60# over weight, but close enough for me. And the most important part for me, it drives perfectly, no sway, no tugging, no squirly front end. I know I'm pushing the limits, but it works fine for me.
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:23 AM   #13
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Don G:
Does anyone know if there is any mechanical differences between the 300, 330, 350 HP engines? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I believe the only difference is how the ECU is programmed. The one thing I know for sure is any '03/'04 CAT C7 rated at 330hp can be reflashed to 350hp if the transmission is rated accordingly (i.e. any Allison MH4000 should be okay).

From a Caterpillar design/maintenance perspective the most notable trade-off for horsepower beside fuel economy is engine longevity. For a given engine family the higher the horsepower and/or the lower the fuel economy the shorter the engine life.

That said in the relatively light loads of RV's compared to the trucking industry generally means the engines will outlast the rest of the rig. But for what it's worth the rule of thumb I was given by a CAT service tech for RV's is to expect 100,000 miles of engine life for each mile-per-gallon you average. In other words, if you average 8 mpg you can expect to get 800,000 miles before the engine needs an overhaul. If you're a leadfoot towing heavy loads, doing 70 and averaging 5 mpg then you'll only get 500,000 miles out of the engine.
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:34 AM   #14
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alan Frank:
In the end, my trailer is actually a bit over weight (too many toys), and the end result on my rear axle, fully loaded, with the trailer, is 17,560#, which as we all know is 60# over weight, but close enough for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Alan,

Owning a 34H myself my one cautionary recommendation is to look into a 4 position weighing instead a simple axle weighing. The axle and tire pressure requirements/ratings are supposed to be based on the highest weight per side multiplied by 2. On my 34H the right rear wheel position is 800 lbs heavier than the left.
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:03 AM   #15
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Sammie,

In response to your question regarding engine upgrades on the newer electronic engines. The answer is that the aftermarket does not have devices yet for your engine, however we have had excellent results with installing the 5050L Aeroturbine muffler and an AFE flow air filter. These 2 together have shown gains of 3-5 mph pulling hills, .5 to 1mpg gain in fuel economy and over 100 degrees less exhaust gas temps.

We feel that if you can get off those hills quicker, it's less wear on vital components and the driver.
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Old 01-02-2007, 01:16 PM   #16
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...On my 34H the right rear wheel position is 800 lbs heavier than the left. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is kind of interesting since the slide is on the left side. Then again the AC unit is on the right hand side.
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Old 01-02-2007, 04:11 PM   #17
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Thanks Vicsryd for the info, I tried to find information on cats web site, but nothing available.
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Old 01-02-2007, 04:53 PM   #18
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Since the conversation has now verred off course to vehicle weights,lets get back to the C-7 horsepower ratings.I have read in other post that if the C-7 is " Flashed " from 330hp to 350hp the additional Heat which will be produced may cause the engine to run hot ,since the radiator was installed by Freightliner and based on a 330hp engine.
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:35 AM   #19
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The aftermarket appears to be catching up. I just read an ad from Edge Products for their box for the Cat 3126 B & E models, and the Cummins 5.9 engine which they claim can increase horsepower 25 - 40 hp, and add up 120 foot pounds of torque. That would probably take care of most folks needs.
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Old 01-03-2007, 06:31 AM   #20
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alan Frank:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Alan If you pull a 10,000lbs trailer do you have more than 500 lbs on the hitch or not worry about it my 34 winnebago has a 10000 lbs tow cap but 5oo lbs on hitch i have 10% more than my trailer 7500 lbs rip </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alright, I'll probably catch **** from a lot of people on this post, but here goes... My 34H also states 500# max tongue weight, and the manual says not to use a weight distributing hitch, though the Freightliner part of the manual states that is important to have about 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue (which as we all know at 10,000#, is 1,000#). Gotta love it when the two can't agree! Anyway, I have not actually weighed my tongue weight separately but assume as with most trailers, it is designed to put about 10% on the tongue, so probably have about 1000#. I do use a weight distributing hitch. I understand the argument that with the overhang, it can't distribute the weight to the front properly, and Winnebago "does not recommend" the use of a WD hitch, but overhand or not, it will distribute SOME of the weight, which will help to bring it back toward the 500# mark. In the end, my trailer is actually a bit over weight (too many toys), and the end result on my rear axle, fully loaded, with the trailer, is 17,560#, which as we all know is 60# over weight, but close enough for me. And the most important part for me, it drives perfectly, no sway, no tugging, no squirly front end. I know I'm pushing the limits, but it works fine for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alan I do not use a WD hitch and I am about 760# on the tongue but have not worried to much it dose not lower the back of my MH any, that may not be a good measuring stick but it is what I use rip
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