basement heat pump problem

cabindog · 02-03-2007, 12:35 PM

We have used our 2002 Winnebago Adventurer 32V basement heat pump full time over the last 4 winters without a problem. Now if we have mildly cool weather,for example, if it is 60 outside and the thermostat is set at 72, then the heat pump will continually run and only reach about 69 inside. The cooler it is outside the more it will struggle and finally fall enough for the gas backup to kick on. It has to be about 67 outside for it to reach 72 inside. We didn't seem to get a heat pump manual when we bought it new in 2002 and don't know how to troubleshoot. We have replaced the 2 filters on regular basis. The thermostat was replaced this past October. How long do they normally last? Any ideas or next steps or a good place to take it in Georgia or Florida? Thanks! ...Cabindog

cabindog · 02-03-2007, 12:35 PM

We have used our 2002 Winnebago Adventurer 32V basement heat pump full time over the last 4 winters without a problem. Now if we have mildly cool weather,for example, if it is 60 outside and the thermostat is set at 72, then the heat pump will continually run and only reach about 69 inside. The cooler it is outside the more it will struggle and finally fall enough for the gas backup to kick on. It has to be about 67 outside for it to reach 72 inside. We didn't seem to get a heat pump manual when we bought it new in 2002 and don't know how to troubleshoot. We have replaced the 2 filters on regular basis. The thermostat was replaced this past October. How long do they normally last? Any ideas or next steps or a good place to take it in Georgia or Florida? Thanks! ...Cabindog

Hikerdogs · 02-03-2007, 01:09 PM

We have the same system in our 01 Adventurer and it works fine down to temps in the mid thirties. I would be willing to bet one of the compressors isn't working.

When you start the system set the thermostat at least 5* above the current room temperature. The blower fan should kick in almost immediatly. A few seconds (10 - 15) later you should hear a click from the thermostat and the first compressor should kick in. The ammeter in the One Place panel should jump up to about 22 - 25 amps for a couple seconds and then settle down to around 16 amps. About 20 - 30 seconds later you should hear a second click from the thermostat and the second compressor should start. The amperage draw should jump to the high twenties or low thirties for a couple seconds and settle down to around 26 amps. If you don't hear the first or second click from the thermostat the thermostat itself may be defective or have a loose connection

It sounds like one of the compressors is working so I would try to determine which one. If you hear either the first and second click but the amperage doesn't shoot up immediately afterward you might have a breaker tripped. (Don't ask how I know this.) The breakers for our system are in a panel next to the entry door.
If they're all ok and there's still no power surge after the thermostat clicks you may have a burnt out starting capacitor. If the amperage shoots up and stays up for several seconds then kicks out the breaker and drops back to around 16 amps you may have a seized compressor.

If both the compressors are coming onto line properly and you still don't get warm air after a minute or so one of the switching valves probably isn't getting a signal or isn't activating. I believe there's a safety in the system that won't allow one compressor to try to heat when the other is trying to cool.

AFChap · 02-03-2007, 03:34 PM

Cabindog

I agree with Hikerdogs. There appears to be something wrong with your system. We had a problem with ours in cooling as well as it should at one point ...burned wiring was preventing the second phase of the compressor from kicking in. (dealer who repaired the system said it was likely due to low voltage ...we bought a SurgeGuard at that point to protect it). Our heat pump function works very well down to somewhere from 34 to 41 depending on the humidity. At some point in that temperature range, it locks out and the LP furnace will kick in.

Izzyblueye · 02-04-2007, 12:34 AM

Hiker dog has probably got it right. I had the same problem on an 01 a couple of years ago. We also found a burned wire back where the capacitors are located. Tech called factory and was told burned wire most likely caused by not being properly tightened at factory. Replaced and no problems since. Surge Guard is a must have add on.
Incidentally Hiker Dogs's amp values are right on the money with mine.

cabindog · 02-04-2007, 09:09 AM

I am missing the second click from the thermostat and the follow up amperage draw. Maybe my new (7 month old) thermostat is the problem.

Thanks Hikerdogs! ---- Cabindog

DancinCampers · 02-04-2007, 10:31 AM

Hi cabindog,

If you are only getting 1 compressor running in the heat pump mode, then the problem is not the thermostat. Unlike the cooling mode, which the thermostat controls both compressors independently (y1 & y2 wires), in the electric heating mode, the thermostat only controls 1 wire (w). When this wire is energized, the basement units PC board takes over all controls of the system. In the heat pump mode, both compressors are always used, unless AC power is not available.

I would put unit into cooling mode & check to see if both compressors operate. If so, then problem is not in compressors.

Do you know what model your basement unit is? I have PDF files of the 6535 and 6536 models I could email you. They are 2 meg & 1 meg respectfully. They include some troubleshooting flow charts.

Hikerdogs · 02-04-2007, 11:19 AM

DancinCampers: Our unit is a 6536 and the only difference I can see (from the manual) in the sequence of operation between the cooling and heating modes is the energizing of the reversing valves. Where did you find the information about the basement PC board controlling the system?

I have a copy of the 6536 service manual that I got when we bought the coach. I thought I read it over fairly thoroughly but must have missed that part. I don't know what version of the manual I have. Maybe there's a newer one out there or I just plain missed it.

DancinCampers · 02-04-2007, 11:36 AM

Hikerdogs,

I got it from the following:
QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE

P.C. BOARD/WALL THERMOSTAT FOR

6536A891, 6536B891

TWO TON PACKAGED HEAT PUMPS

The applicable part is:

PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD HEATING SECTION
.
HEAT PUMP OPERATION (HEAT MODE)

1. Begins with a call from the thermostat, 12 volt positive (+) to terminal #8 (W) in the 9-pin connector. (White with Black stripe
wire at the thermostat). The Ground (-) is Blue in terminal #4.
2. The p.c. board takes over at this time and controls all functions of the heat pump.
3. 115 VAC should appear between the T18 and T19 Rev Valve Out terminals.
4. This voltage continues to the reversing valve solenoid coils and switches both reversing valves to the heat position.
5. The High Speed Indoor Blower relay closes on the board. 115 volts (HOT leg) signal should appear on the T6, Indoor Blower High Out terminal. The 115 volt NEUTRAL leg to the motor is not routed through the printed circuit board.
6. The 115 volts (HOT leg) power continues from terminal T6 to the High Speed motor tap and the motor begins to run on High Speed.
7. 12 VDC passes through the circuit board to terminals T3B and T2, Comp 1 Coil. (Subject to 115 VAC power through the Circuit 1 Exclusion Relay and the Outdoor Coil Sensor).
8. 12 VDC continues from terminals T3B and T2, Comp 1 Coil to the Compressor #1 relay coil.
9. The Compressor Relay #1 closes and Compressor #1 comes on.
10. The Outdoor Blower starts on Low Speed 2-seconds later (See Outdoor Blower Section).
11. After a 30-second time delay, 12 VDC passes through the circuit board to terminals T3A and T10, Comp 2 Coil terminals.
12. The Compressor Relay #2 closes. (Subject to available 115 VAC power). Compressor #2 starts and runs.
13. The unit continues in the Heating Mode until the thermostat is satisfied.

I also have the 6536 series. I can email this guide to you if you like.

AFChap · 02-04-2007, 11:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In the heat pump mode, both compressors are always used, unless AC power is not available. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't believe that is the case with my unit. Mine is the 6535 series. I've been listening closely to my unit for the past few weeks due to a strange noise I hear only on the 1st phase. I know for sure that my 1st phase kicks on in heat pump mode, than in a minute or so it drops off and the 2nd phase then kicks in. This is the same way I hear it working in ac mode.

While you're analyzing, how about giving me some idea on mine too! On the 1st phase only, I hear a rattling noise that almost sounds like the squirrel cage is loose on the shaft. But when the 2nd phase kicks in, the noise is gone. The outside blower motor and carrier bearing was replaced in early Nov 2006, so it hasn't been all that long since the unit was out and checked over.

rvten · 02-04-2007, 11:46 AM

look up your unit here http://www.rvcomfort.com/

DancinCampers · 02-04-2007, 12:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't believe that is the case with my unit. Mine is the 6535 series. I've been listening closely to my unit for the past few weeks due to a strange noise I hear only on the 1st phase. I know for sure that my 1st phase kicks on in heat pump mode, than in a minute or so it drops off and the 2nd phase then kicks in. This is the same way I hear it working in ac mode. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AFChap,

According to the 6535 info I have, it is the same. The quick way to see what is happening is by seeing what the amp meter does.

The 6535 Data Plate shows about 15.7 Amps on #1 system when its running (Compressor 9Amps, Outdoor Blower on Hi 3.3Amps, Indoor Blower on Hi 3.4Amps)
You should see another 9 Amps (Total 24.7) when the #2 compressor starts.

The noise you may be hearing is the Outdoor Blower motor being slowed down by the PC board as it brings the #2 compressor online.

Hope this helps.

AFChap · 02-04-2007, 05:07 PM

Dan

I think we are saying the same thing ...that the 1st phase kicks in, and after about a minute the 2nd phase kicks in. And yes, you can see that on the amp meter if you are running on 30a shore power or generator ...you won't see anything in the amp meter display when running on 50a shore power on my rig.

The noise I am hearing is constant while the 1st phase is running, then goes away when the 2nd phase kicks in. The outdoor blower totally shuts down (as it always has in the 3 yr we've owned the rig) just before the 2nd phase comes online.

peter griffin · 02-05-2007, 04:51 AM

while we are on the ac subject i was reading that some units have oil ports near the fan housing that require maintenance of 1 or 2 drops a year...anyone ever oil these?

or do we not have oil ports?

thanks

AFChap · 02-05-2007, 06:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">some units have oil ports near the fan housing that require maintenance </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The unit has to be totally removed from the RV to get to the fan housing. The units I have seen removed from a rig did have an oil port on the bearing housing. HOWEVER, the mfg (RVP) states "the only maintenance that must be taken care of on a regular basis is the cleaning or replacement of the units return air filters." They also recommend that once or twice a season you inspect the outdoor coil and brush off any accumulated residue with a soft brush.

george & betty · 02-27-2007, 08:07 AM

Hi everyone have 2002 35u main gas heater will not come on when heat pump calls for it. replace therm. about 6 months ago air is fine as is heat pump. Have been sitting for about 14 months thought there may be a block some were not allowing fresh air in nor vent .any ideas were to start

Thanks for your help
george
aka tincantouristx2

Izzyblueye · 02-27-2007, 08:50 AM

I am going to ask the dumbest question ever. Is you gas valve turned on, do you have propane in the tank and did you bleed air from the system before trying the furnace? This is in no way meant to be a smart aleck response. It is just that some times the little thing get overlooked.

george & betty · 02-27-2007, 09:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Homer:
I am going to ask the dumbest question ever. Is you gas valve turned on, do you have propane in the tank and did you bleed air from the system before trying the furnace? This is in no way meant to be a smart aleck response. It is just that some times the little thing get overlooked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

george & betty · 02-27-2007, 09:54 AM

Thank coach would have been the questions I would have asked also. Idid fill the propane up thinking there may not be enough presure .Just remove vent cover and remored golf ball size hornet nest. No help glad it,s warm here and the heat pump works fine will continue looking . Any and all help taken thank you again

George

simbil · 03-13-2011, 11:40 PM

'05 - 35' Winni. Adventurer, gas.
Don't know how recent the previous postings are, however we are in Yuma where the temp. in recent days has gone into the 90's and our A.C. won't operate. It is a 6535 model. When we turn it on you can hear the outside blower come on, then the first compressor, a few seconds pass and it sounds as if the second one starts and then it all shuts down. A few minutes pass and it all starts again only to shut down. A couple of days ago after a few false starts it did stay on, but once it was shut down and attempts made to get it going at another time, no luck.
I think there may be a link to the fact that the inside fans don't first come on as happens with the heating cycle. I'm wondering if perhaps the "cheapo" fan slider switch may be the culprit. Thermostat/controller is TrueAir Coleman-Max.
Filter is clean as is the radiator appearing, grill. Are on 50A and voltage is consistent.
Any ideas appreciated.