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Old 11-20-2016, 08:48 AM   #1
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Basement heat pump HELP !

We own a 2006 Journey with the RVP/Airexcel/Coleman 6537 basement heat pump/air conditioner. After 10 years, it's showing signs of heading downhill. We understand that unit is no longer manufactured and key components (like compressor) are no longer available from Coleman. Previous posts have suggested some options:
* "substitute Coleman 46515-811 - will work with some modifications/ducting changes". Can anyone provide more detail on the changes needed and cost to do them?
* "substitute compressor from another source" - can anyone provide info on substitutes - manufacturer? model? direct replacement or modifications required? source? What about the compressor from the 46515 ?
* "change over to rooftop units" - any input here? I read that installing in place of the power vent in the kitchen can be done as that spot is reinforced already. What about bedroom installation? Would like to hear about successful conversion, source and rough cost.
Thanks
PS - I am NOT a do-it-yourselfer
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Old 11-20-2016, 03:11 PM   #2
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Basement air

Those were great units, but need some care. If both of your compressors are running, you only need some service. You need to have both interior and exterior coils cleaned. If one of the compressors won.t start, could be just the start capacitor.
If it does not blow air or enough air could be the interior blower fan, or the duct that runs up the back of the coach, under the back cap, is loose or leaking.
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Old 11-20-2016, 03:30 PM   #3
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In my 2002 Journey a kitchen mount 18,500 btu with all electric and thermastats cost $1700. Also included all wiring and a switch connecting either washer dryer and new ac. Ac blows straght down and is noisy. Thermastat is mounted on side of kitchen cabinet facing front of coach. Rkl
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:31 AM   #4
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Previous posts that the units are no longer made and/or parts not available are not true. I just put a new unit in mine a couple of months ago. RVP gave me the current model # replacement for my old unit. I ordered from dyersonline at a great price, and it was an exact fit. It was not complicated to swap out.
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFChap View Post
Previous posts that the units are no longer made and/or parts not available are not true. I just put a new unit in mine a couple of months ago. RVP gave me the current model # replacement for my old unit. I ordered from dyersonline at a great price, and it was an exact fit. It was not complicated to swap out.
Could you post the part # for your Winnie? Thanks
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Old 11-21-2016, 12:39 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by rgvtexan View Post
Could you post the part # for your Winnie? Thanks
Original unit was 6535A871. Direct replacement is 46515-811. My cost in June 2016 was $2,280 from dyers online...free shipping.
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Old 11-22-2016, 05:24 AM   #7
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basement heat pump HELP

Thanks for responses. I'm having capacitors replaced today. That may solve immediate problem, but repair center tech said compressor (1 or both) may need replacing "soon".
My unit is a 6537, not 6535. I spoke with Coleman Customer Service yesterday. He confirmed that the 6537 is no longer available and that the replacement compressor for the 6537 (part # 1450-2079) is also no longer available. Then, he decided that the compressor from the 6535 (part #1450-2149) is will work, but they're out of stock - backordered until 12/2. He also confirmed that the new 46515 is a replacement for the 6535, but not for the 6537. Other posts have indicated that the 46515 could be modified to fit in place of the 6537.
I asked the repair center folks to confirm that the 6535 compressor would fit my unit and check availability. He called Coleman and was told that yes, that compressor would work, but it too was no longer available.
He checked his regular supplier who just happened to have 2 of the 1450-2149 units in stock.
I have them on order and hopefully I'm set for another 10 years.
Thanks again for the help.
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:25 AM   #8
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Part # on file, Thanks again.
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Old 11-22-2016, 08:51 AM   #9
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Not sure where you're from, but if you're anywhere near Shipshewana, IN (close to Elkhart), I highly recommend National RV Refrigeration. Excellent work at a ridiculously low price.
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:25 AM   #10
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If the unit is really going bad then take a look at this;
Coleman-Mach - Heat Pumps for RVs and Special Applications | Airxcel

I believe this may be a direct replacement or at least they may be able to help.
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Old 03-25-2021, 07:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFChap View Post
Original unit was 6535A871. Direct replacement is 46515-811. My cost in June 2016 was $2,280 from dyers online...free shipping.

Thank you for this. My compressors wore out after 15 years. Same model number. Only took an hour to pull it with my table jack. You have to sweat taps on to test it. Got caught in WY heat wave last summer, 100 degrees.
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Old 03-25-2021, 08:30 PM   #12
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rheine3: You revived an old thread I just happened to catch in today list of topics.

So... what sort of problems are you having. I ask, because I get the idea a number of owner might have been able to save their basement AC if they better understood how this thing works. ...And secondly, from what I can tell, there are a number of AC techs out there who don't know how to trouble shoot this basement AC; never mind the leaking duct work in the rear cap, which is were all the inefficiency complaints usually arise from.

So if you are looking for more info on this subject, search for Hard Start Kits if you don't already know about this stuff.

If you do plan on replacing your compressors, please let us know your source them and what the part numbers and costs are? ...I'm not aware what people are doing when they need to replace an R-22 compressor in today's market.

Is your AC is a 6537-671? If so, does it like like this top picture posted by JourneyCat?

Or do you have a 6535-671 like I do in my 2004 Horizon 40AD? (See bottom pictures... and notice the placement differences as to where the electronic circuits and capacitors are kept.)
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Old 03-26-2021, 08:34 AM   #13
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Looks like the top picture. Mine is 6535A871. I put all new caps in and that fixed one problem but AC starts up gets cool for one minute then goes ambient on me. The cooling might even be the duct work. Maybe the reversing valve.
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Old 03-26-2021, 09:12 AM   #14
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There's a lot of information in this thread: https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...-a-359477.html
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Old 03-26-2021, 05:58 PM   #15
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Hopefully these ideas will help:

If you get heat for 1-minute, some might conclude:

A) Your compressor is overheating and the overload device is shutting the system down; or...

B) The overload device, which is a N.C. PTC-R, is bad and is prematurely opening the circuit.

First I would check these things, because you don't need to remove the AC from the frame rails to do them:

* Make sure you re-wired it correct after you replace the run capacitor.

* Verify it's not the Thermostat.

==> Bypass it, at the basement AC circuit board, by using a 12V rechargeable drill battery to simulate a thermostat call.)

* Verify it's not the #1 compressor control relay.

==> Check for voltage under load.

This thread has lots of links and wire diagrams that should help you with your troubleshooting plan, but I will also post some diagrams below.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...-359467-4.html

rheine3: Did you already replace your basement AC a few years ago or did you trouble shoot and fix it yourself? ...Your posts below suggest you still have a problem or is this a new problem?

jdpiggy: As "OP" are you leaning in the direction of replacing your basement AC or repairing it? I really like my basement AC and would never go to a noisy rooftop AC. Hopefully, you can fix your basement AC for a lot less than buying new. These things are very well built. The weak point is only the circuit board and the capacitors which always need replacing after 5-7+ years. And a knowledgeable tech can bypass functions on the circuit board to verify when it needs to be replaced.
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Old 03-26-2021, 08:22 PM   #16
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Thanks all. Now that's a lot of info. I have several RVs. This is my first problem with this one. I have mine pulled and on the bench. I know both compressors kicked in cause I was pulling 20 some then 30 some amps when #2 came online. My AC friend wants to hook it up ( still on the table lift) to the RV and run more tests. Of course there are no service valves so I want to check everything else out first. I did get a new thermostat so I will do a bypass. Had not thought of that . I am not an AC guy so I called in professional help.
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Old 03-26-2021, 10:39 PM   #17
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Since you have the lid off you can do some resistance measurements to the compressor start and run coils by measuring ohms at the compressor... without the overload device connected.

Then you can compare these values to the chart posted above and if they are in spec... your compressors are good.

What I would be interested in, after you verify you have a properly working basement AC, is if you can measure the compressor START & RUN coil resistance -- with the wires connected to the outside circuit box.

The reason for these measurements are so all of us have a way of verifying the total ohms to the COMPRSSOR-RUN-WINDINGS; and the total ohms to the COMPRESSOR-START-WINDINGS when measured from the circuit box.

This reference will help to determine if our compressor is bad WITHOUT pulling the box off the frame rails... and therefore, this information will be very helpful to all of us!

* Notice the compressor run winding wire have a lot less ohms than the start winding!

HERE'S HOW TO CHECK A PERFECTLY GOOD WORKING BASEMENT AC SO YOU HAVE A REFERENCE POINT IN THE FUTURE

Compressor #1 Common-to-Start WINDING
* Disconnect the Black "Common" wire to Pin #6 at Relay #1.
* Then disconnect the "red wire" to the Run Capacitor
* Measure the total ohms in this circuit with the wires attached to the outside circuit box, and share with the rest of us???

==> The answer should be 4.42 ohms for the compressor START WINDINGS, plus the ohms in the wire, plus the PTCR overload device in the circuit.

Compressor #1 Common-to-RUN WINDING
* Disconnect the Black Wire to Pin #6 at Relay #1. (Same as above.)
* Then disconnect the "WHITE wire" to the Run Capacitor

==> Measure the total ohms in this circuit with the wires attached to the outside circuit box, and share with the rest of us???

==> The answer should be 0.63 ohms for the compressor RUN WINDING, plus the ohms in the wire, plus the PTCR overload device in the circuit.

=== NOW TEST COMPRESSOR #2 ===

Compressor #2 Common-to-Start WINDING
* Disconnect the Orange "Common" Wire to Pin #6 at Relay #2.
* Then disconnect the "Purple Wire" to the Run Capacitor

==> Measure the total ohms in this circuit with the wires attached to the outside circuit box, and share with the rest of us???

==> The answer should be 4.42 ohms for the compressor START WINDINGS, plus the ohms in the wire, plus the PTCR overload device in the circuit.

Compressor #2 Common-to-RUN WINDING
* Disconnect the Orange "Common" Wire to Pin #6 at Relay #2. (Same as above.)
* Then disconnect the "Yellow Wire" to the Run Capacitor

==> Measure the total ohms in this circuit with the wires attached to the outside circuit box, and share with the rest of us???

==> The answer should be 0.63 ohms for the compressor RUN WINDING, plus the ohms in the wire, plus the PTCR overload device in the circuit.

Note: The compressor Overload Device goes on the Common Wire, but I don't know how many ohms it is or what the Wattage spec is? Maybe someone can tell us and where to buy one. It's a common enough N.C. switch that should be widely available if you know what to ask for?

=== OTHER COMMENTS ===

* The compressor start windings are thicker and can handle a rapid burst of energy. This why you can bump up your start capacitor from 88-108uF, which is the OEM spec -- to a slightly larger 135-162uF start capacitor... if your compressor is having trouble starting due to age or if you are having trouble re-starting it in hot weather. (Above 105F.)

=== OTHER QUESTIONS FOR YOUR HVAC TECH ===

* Does a stuck reversing valve affect normal AC-cold operations?

* What is the right Ohms replacement for the Overload protection device? I know this is just another PTC-R device, but I don't have ohms or Watts or part number to know where to get one.

* And... one more thing. If you AC is shutting off after 1 minute, don't forget to verify you are not loosing voltage thru a weak Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS) with burned relay points! I.e., when your basement AC starts drawing 14A for each compressor (24-28A total) you need a solid ATS to deliver it.

* You also need 50A shore power to test both compressors at the same time since the amperage will overload a house 15A or 20A breaker; or you can run your generator.... which again puts a load on the ATS.

Please keep us informed of your developments. This is a learning exercise for all of us.
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Old 03-27-2021, 12:34 AM   #18
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Here's a slightly easier circuit diagram.

* I also attached a .pdf if that produces a clearer image.
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Old 04-29-2021, 03:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFChap View Post
Original unit was 6535A871. Direct replacement is 46515-811. My cost in June 2016 was $2,280 from dyers online...free shipping.

Is your unit return air on top or in the back? Air Excel (Coleman) just told me they do not make any models compatible with Winnebago. They said Winnie had a custom design and stopped buying for Coleman around 2010.
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Old 04-29-2021, 05:14 PM   #20
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Return air is on the back on this model, 46515-811.
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