Basement air reality?

[sellhomz]

Originally Posted by UFO Pilot

I have basement air and have used the electric heat for 5 years and now I find out that I am an idiot?

Ok maybe I don't understand I just traded up from a single roof top Ac and basement gas heat. To a newer unit with two compressor basement heat pump which vents from ceiling and so far it has kept us very warm without cutting on the gas. And when I am on shore power from the camp site I don't want to use my propane. It has only been down to the mid to high 30 and mainly 40's. is there any reason I need to use the gas until it really gets colder?

[edgray]

Originally Posted by UFO Pilot

I have basement air and have used the electric heat for 5 years and now I find out that I am an idiot?

Don't take it personally, Wayne. I'm sure he must have been referring to the WBGO engineers who designed and equipped thousands of coachs with electric HEAT pumps, which IMO, most reasonable owners use to avoid burning the propane furnace until the temps are too cold for the HP to be efficient. Mine switches automatically to the propane furnace only after the HP cannot achieve the desired warmth by itself. Some posts are better left ignored.

Say HI to Roberta !
Ed

[edgray]

Originally Posted by sellhomz

is there any reason I need to use the gas until it really gets colder?

NO, unless you are concerned about being called "idiot" for doing something that is perfectly reasonable and good for the environment, too.

[KIX]

Originally Posted by sellhomz

................... is there any reason I need to use the gas until it really gets colder?

No reason at all to use propane. The True Air thermostat will automatically engage the gas heat when the heat pump cannot maintain your set temp.

[AFChap]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFChap
Our basement air worked great in temps up to 105 or so until we had the #1 compressor replaced last summer ...now it can barely manage 85 degrees. We are still trying to figure out what changed. The service tech says the new compressor was properly charged, there are no obvious large duct leaks, but it simply does not work as well as it originally did...

I assume that you have verified that they didn't do something that affected the #2 compressor.

#2 is kicking in as normal. Temp output appears normal until outside temps get around the mid 80's or so. By the time outside temp is 95 the unit can't keep the inside cooler than 4-5 degrees below ambient temp.

[KIX]

Originally Posted by AFChap

#2 is kicking in as normal. Temp output appears normal until outside temps get around the mid 80's or so. By the time outside temp is 95 the unit can't keep the inside cooler than 4-5 degrees below ambient temp.

Check AIR temp at return air plennum and at first supply ceiling register. You can't use a thermal "gun" as in won't be accurate. Use an A/C thermometer. a 20* difference is the spec. If the temp is within spec you could look at the indoor fan blower speed. If that also seems to be good then the rear cap vertical duct could be breached and spilling cold air to atmosphere.

[AFChap]

a 20* difference is the spec. If the temp is within spec you could look at the indoor fan blower speed. ... vertical duct could be breached

My unit has always tested apx 20* diff w/one compressor running, and close to 40* with both running. The tech who worked on it agrees that is normal. It is not capable of that now. I took it back and it sat there a month w/o him getting to it. I took it back for holiday travels and plan to take it back to him later when he indicates he WILL work it. As indicated above, I have not been able to find a problem with the duct.

[Ramzfan]

Originally Posted by Wizard

The basement air blows out of vents in the ceiling

It cools really good in our 36' motorhome even in 100deg weather. Little noisy at night though as its located under the bedroom.

I too, have a 36 ft Motorhome and have had no problems with the basement air. We were camped in 100 degree plus weather this past summer and it kept the coach plenty cool.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by KIX

No reason at all to use propane. The True Air thermostat will automatically engage the gas heat when the heat pump cannot maintain your set temp.

I think if the gas heat is running you're using propane?

Our two roof heat pumps will shut down and then automatically turn on the furnace if it gets too cold. That does use propane (gas).

[firesafety55]

Originally Posted by bachler

We Own an Ultimate, The air is the best Part of the outstanding coach. The most inportant thing to remember i Everything has its limites; Just because the spedo reads 110 MPH does not mean it is to be driven that speed.... OK then someone says Well it was only 92 degrees outside and we had the air turned down to a comfortable 72 degrees And it would not take it that cool.. .. Well friend IT AIN'T gonna happen;; If you want it to get that cool. On a 40 foot dark paint, Exterior. You will need 3or5 Coleman Airs/worts on the roof.. Then you have a noise issue in the coach. We have been there. In our 7 coaches; Basement air is The best units built. It's to bad they are going away; Which had nothing to do with there performance;;; I have also encountered some IDIOTS that Think they could heat there coach with the Basement air.. Why don't they just turn on there furnace, IT is made to heat the coach;;, I am allways amazed, how Few people use there Brains.. Life is good. But to short;

glad to know I am an Idiot...I was wondering what was wrong with me..now I can seek help....

but before I go to the shrink, answer one thing...Why don't the manufacturers install a real electric heat furnace in the RV...not a heat pump, but real electric heat..the heat pump as far as I am concerned is a waste...but an electric heater would be great...goooood daaaay

[Jimooo]

The basement air reality is that when both basement and roof air are compared there is no comparison , the basement air system setup in your MH is more efficient and more durable than roof air, your return air drawing air in across the coils is lower near floor, which is cooler air. The fan drawing air in outside below MH is cooler than on rooftop, there might be a 15-20 degrees difference in temp from rooftop to below MH .


I'm comparing the same BTU,square feet,with both units in the sun.


When the 1st stage/#1 compressor doesn't keep up the 2nd stage compressor comes on to satisfy t-stat setting .

Happy RVing, James

[dc8cappie]

Originally Posted by SVTotem

Earl,

Where was the wiring routed to power the new ceiling unit. Also for the thermostat. Just curious how they would get power up there without making a mess of things.

Bill,

The wiring is routed from the main AC CB panel with a 20amp breaker to the RV electrical bay which houses the 30amp transfer relay. From the T/R it goes forward then up in the refer area to the ceiling. It punches into the A/C duct then into the ceiling fan area which is where the A/C is mounted. At this time I installed the on A/C temp control unit. There is a remote cence thermostat that I plan to purchase and install at a later date. I figure I can put up with a manual control until than. I had trouble finding the remote and didn't want to hang wires, although I could have run wires through the ducts and brought them down behind the electrical control panel and mounted one in that area.

Bill, I hope this answers your question. Let me know your idea and what you deside to do.

The only reason I know about the remote cencer is my brother has one as standard equipment in his Montana 5th wheel.

Happy RVing.

[bachler]

Originally Posted by bachler

We Own an Ultimate, The air is the best Part of the outstanding coach. The most inportant thing to remember i Everything has its limites; Just because the spedo reads 110 MPH does not mean it is to be driven that speed.... OK then someone says Well it was only 92 degrees outside and we had the air turned down to a comfortable 72 degrees And it would not take it that cool.. .. Well friend IT AIN'T gonna happen;; If you want it to get that cool. On a 40 foot dark paint, Exterior. You will need 3or5 Coleman Airs/worts on the roof.. Then you have a noise issue in the coach. We have been there. In our 7 coaches; Basement air is The best units built. It's to bad they are going away; Which had nothing to do with there performance;;; I have also encountered some IDIOTS that Think they could heat there coach with the Basement air.. Why don't they just turn on there furnace, IT is made to heat the coach;;, I am allways amazed, how Few people use there Brains.. Life is good. But to short;

When we were Snowmobiling and there is snow on the roof of the motorhome, we would go riding come back 4 hours later and my friend (the IDIOT) would leave the basement air on to thy and heat the coach; Please I was not Intended to Intimadate a poster;; Youall Know better;;

[RCtime]

KIX Quote
Check AIR temp at return air plennum and at first supply ceiling register. You can't use a thermal "gun" as in won't be accurate. Use an A/C thermometer. a 20* difference is the spec. If the temp is within spec you could look at Quote

i have always used the thermal gun. Can you explain why it isnt accurate.

My basement air does a great job, of course a 34 footer is much smaller.

Thanks

[BFlinn181]

Most A/C are designed to create a 20 degree drop measured from right in front of the coil compared to right after the coil. This doesn't mean you are only limited to a 20 d. drop from outside air, As the inlet air is now cooler, the outlet air is also cooler. So inlet starts at 92, outlet is 72. As the inlet air cools to 91, outlet cools to 71, and so on. This is not infinite of course, solar gain, heat radiated and generated in the coach all limit how far the temperature can drop. If it can't make it comfortable in the coach, insulation is inadequate, undersized units, or poorly installed. "I am allways amazed, how Few people use there Brains." I am too that anyone would accept an RV or buy one with an HVAC system that can't make you comfortable.

If the A/C unit is operating within spec., then I'd look to duct work. Often it is poorly routed, insulated and undersized.

The heat pump function of many HVAC systems is the most efficient way to heat if the outside temperature is above it's efficiency limits. (typically ~38 - 42 degrees) Add to that the fact that your electricity is usually unmetered in the campsite and you have to pay to replace LP, only an IDIOT would NOT use the heat pump function down to it's efficiency limits. The lack of electric heat coils in a HVAC system is easily remedied by a electric ceramic heater, stowed when not needed.

The basement air idea was not bad, makes for a sleeker looking rooftop. In reality, the units and their ductwork take up under coach storage space, are more expensive than rooftop units, harder to get serviced, and ducting from underneath to overhead creates much inefficiency and potential underperformance. I would imagine the bean-counters and engineering departments won over the marketing department at Winnie and that's why they are being discontinued.

[UFO Pilot]

Originally Posted by edgray

Don't take it personally, Wayne. I'm sure he must have been referring to the WBGO engineers who designed and equipped thousands of coachs with electric HEAT pumps, which IMO, most reasonable owners use to avoid burning the propane furnace until the temps are too cold for the HP to be efficient. Mine switches automatically to the propane furnace only after the HP cannot achieve the desired warmth by itself. Some posts are better left ignored.

Say HI to Roberta !
Ed

I didn't take it personally, I was just trying to be sarcastic.

I have noticed a lot of posts lately that call people "stupid" or "idiots" if they don't agree with your opinion and couldn't let that one pass without comment.

We are doing well, planning on going to Indio for the FMCA Rally in January. Hope you are staying dry.

[BFlinn181]

Originally Posted by UFO Pilot

I didn't take it personally, I was just trying to be sarcastic.

I have noticed a lot of posts lately that call people "stupid" or "idiots" if they don't agree with your opinion and couldn't let that one pass without comment

I too was being sarcastic and making a point. Never argue with an idiot, they may be too. I like this forum because name calling and put downs are not allowed or the norm.

[slick60]

I have a 2004 Journey 39K and have had NO problems with the basement air. The problem I have is the thermostat letting the unit run until the rig is like a refrigerator. Air and heat pump work great. Hope you are as lucky.

[pattcook]

I have an 03 Itasca 35u. For most of the time I have owned it I was dissapointed in the basement airs ability to cool the rig in anything over about 90 degrees. I discovered that a seam on material covering the square ductwork in the rear of the coach where it comes out of the ac unit was loose and cold air was pouring out. More air seemed to be coming out in various places around the base of the square ductwork as well. I spent a couple of hours bending over under the backside of the coach patching up these leaking areas with duct tape. It took a while but increased the ac units ability to cool and keep the temperature down greatly. The system works fantastic now in most any temperature and I just wish I could of found this out earlier.- John

[sellhomz]

Heat pumps save energy. They are more effective and efficient until you get below 30-35 degrees then you are spending more for no more heat. And you need to use the propane or a supplemental heat. But as long as you are ok with air only a few degrees warmer at a time till it gets warm you are using the best economically and if you are paying for power at a camp site more electric you use vs your propane the better. However electric heat is the least economical to run cost vs btu