Basement Air Problems...

Moder2 · 06-03-2007, 08:47 AM

I love my basement air, but got a bit of a jam with it...

So far I have quazi diagnosed the problem, but would like more opinions. Since it is Sunday, all I can do is sit and stew about it anyhow...

I woke up yesterday AM to both breakers tripped. Never happened before, so I flipped them back, and checked my filter, and searched for a cause. Didn't find one. Figured it was a power surge.

Couple hours later noticed it was getting warm, so I checked the thermostat. Hmm... Breakers were fine this time. So, I pulled the skirt up and found the High Head Pressure switch tripped... Hmm. Weird. Reset it and it clicked on with no seemingly further problem.

Again, tripped the high head switch a couple hours later, which now I tried to repeat the problem, and found that the Low side of the Outside Blower was not coming on. The LED on the board would just 'Flicker' in unison with the relay on the board clicking. Ugh. Now, if the temp difference was large enough, the unit would start with the high side blower, and would run until it satisfied itself, then the cycle would start over and it would trip the High Head Pressure switch.

I found the service manual, and followed the troubleshooting flow-chart for the No Outdoor Blower Low Speed.

I had power across T4 & T5, moved to the next box, and T11 & T13 would show trace voltage only when the relay clicked on and off. I am confused now-- The flow chart offers only a "Yes" or a "No" answer. The "No" which I assume is the case here says replace PC board. The "Yes", says check wiring to OD Blower, Check Capacitor, and check for an open ground.

Here is where it gets more confusing...

So, I pulled the lines off for the low side blower, and the relay clicked closed and stayed closed, and the LED lit steady, and I have power across the T11 & T13 terminals. Thinking maybe it is the blower motor itself now, I ran 120volts right to the motor, which started and ran fine. I don't have an Ammeter, but I did use pretty small wire to jumper it, and it didn't get hot in the few minutes I jumpered it, so I don't "Think" that it is drawing too much power.

Finally, my questions:

How do I check the Start Capacitors?

Is it possible the relay on the board is just not holding the closed position because it is worn out or weak?

What else could be the cause?

I don't know the pricing or availability of the PC board yet, since when I called my dealer their computers were "Down" and the smart a$$ kid on the counter couldn't walk to the shelf to see if they had one in stock! (Oh yes, John is Livid, and very bitter).

Thanks for the help and advice in advance. As of right now I have a box fan bungee corded to the coil and pulled the wires on the low side. It works, but looks like I belong here in South Carolina-- ugh.

John

Moder2 · 06-03-2007, 08:47 AM

I love my basement air, but got a bit of a jam with it...

So far I have quazi diagnosed the problem, but would like more opinions. Since it is Sunday, all I can do is sit and stew about it anyhow...

I woke up yesterday AM to both breakers tripped. Never happened before, so I flipped them back, and checked my filter, and searched for a cause. Didn't find one. Figured it was a power surge.

Couple hours later noticed it was getting warm, so I checked the thermostat. Hmm... Breakers were fine this time. So, I pulled the skirt up and found the High Head Pressure switch tripped... Hmm. Weird. Reset it and it clicked on with no seemingly further problem.

Again, tripped the high head switch a couple hours later, which now I tried to repeat the problem, and found that the Low side of the Outside Blower was not coming on. The LED on the board would just 'Flicker' in unison with the relay on the board clicking. Ugh. Now, if the temp difference was large enough, the unit would start with the high side blower, and would run until it satisfied itself, then the cycle would start over and it would trip the High Head Pressure switch.

I found the service manual, and followed the troubleshooting flow-chart for the No Outdoor Blower Low Speed.

I had power across T4 & T5, moved to the next box, and T11 & T13 would show trace voltage only when the relay clicked on and off. I am confused now-- The flow chart offers only a "Yes" or a "No" answer. The "No" which I assume is the case here says replace PC board. The "Yes", says check wiring to OD Blower, Check Capacitor, and check for an open ground.

Here is where it gets more confusing...

So, I pulled the lines off for the low side blower, and the relay clicked closed and stayed closed, and the LED lit steady, and I have power across the T11 & T13 terminals. Thinking maybe it is the blower motor itself now, I ran 120volts right to the motor, which started and ran fine. I don't have an Ammeter, but I did use pretty small wire to jumper it, and it didn't get hot in the few minutes I jumpered it, so I don't "Think" that it is drawing too much power.

Finally, my questions:

How do I check the Start Capacitors?

Is it possible the relay on the board is just not holding the closed position because it is worn out or weak?

What else could be the cause?

I don't know the pricing or availability of the PC board yet, since when I called my dealer their computers were "Down" and the smart a$$ kid on the counter couldn't walk to the shelf to see if they had one in stock! (Oh yes, John is Livid, and very bitter).

Thanks for the help and advice in advance. As of right now I have a box fan bungee corded to the coil and pulled the wires on the low side. It works, but looks like I belong here in South Carolina-- ugh.

John

John_Canfield · 06-03-2007, 12:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moder2:
-snip-

How do I check the Start Capacitors?

Is it possible the relay on the board is just not holding the closed position because it is worn out or weak?-snip-
John </div></BLOCKQUOTE>John - It is a little tricky to check capacitors with an ohmmeter and you would need a good one to compare yours with. You put the +/- ohmmeter leads across the terminals one way, then reverse and note the meter swing. This is probably easier with an analog (needle type) ohmmeter. There are instruments designed to check capacitors, but for your situation, I would just replace yours and see if that fixes the problem.

Usually relays either work or don't, but with the control electronics involved - who knows?

Replacing the start capacitors would be a really good place to begin - not too expensive and a good chance that might be your problem.

Moder2 · 06-03-2007, 02:13 PM

Thanks John.

I looked at the caps, but your right without a new one to compare it to I just don't know. I don't think they are bad, since I am getting about the same response out of all "Like" caps, which is what I would expect to see, and since the motor caps are both showing 250+ volts I am pretty sure they are OK.

I am sure the board isn't cheap, so I'm gonna call the repair place tomorrow who has my washer/dryer (No, I'm not having a lot of luck lately with major appliances.) and hope the warrentee company steps up... Ugh, I hate this!

I always thought the same about relays... Work or don't work.... What really throws a loop into my thought process is how is "Works" with no load, but trips in and out with load, and the laod doesn't seem overly excessive, which leads me to think the motor is going, but then I guess it could be a bad cap, since the motor works fine on High speed, and on Low when I direct wire it...

At least I got it rigged enough to keep us cool!

Thanks for the response.

DancinCampers · 06-05-2007, 12:41 PM

Moder2,

You may want to check the voltage coming off the number 1 compressor relay, term 2 I believe. See if it changes when the relay is clicking. I believe the power for the low blower speed starts here. The Hi speed power starts from compressor #2 relay.

Seems to me from what you described, the motor & run capacitor are ok.

Moder2 · 06-06-2007, 01:28 PM

I am happy to report I can now agian hang meat from the ceiling... It is working again.

After talking to Keith at RVP, and the great people at Tony's RV in Lexington, SC, We diagnosed it to be a bad circuit board.

RVP and Tony's were awesome to deal with, and got me the new board overnight. It was pricey, and hopefully my extended warranty will pick up some of the $238.00 bill, but in the end, I would have paid whatever I had to to get it working again.

The replacement was pretty straight forward, even though the board was updated, and drastically changed from the one I had. A few of the connections went to different terminals, but they were clearly spelled out in the installation papers. The biggest pain was lengthening some wires, which wasn't a big deal, it just made the box look like a bigger ball of wires than before.

The New board has some added functionality over the old one. First is is much more solid state, and I am glad to be rid of the old mechanical type relays, as I think that was the case of the failure. I pulled the relay apart on the old board to find it very scored, and the contacts are almost non-repairable.

The Green LED now indicates loss of A/C line voltage, and weather or not it is in "Time Out" mode. The old board did not have a time out mode to my knowledge, which this upgrade does make me feel a bit better about not having a surge gaurd, although, that is one thing on my wish list for the near future.

The wiring changed a bit to take some advantage of the EMS (though, I am not sure how). There is a "Winnie Specific" diagram for this unit, which runs the #2 compressor up to the EMS. The old board also was run through the EMS, but in a different way...

All in all it seems to be working as it should now.

Thanks for the responses.

John

kokofriend · 06-07-2007, 04:41 AM

Interested in this because I just had the AC go out - it was trying to draw 58-59 amps to start. Dealer found the capacitors and the board were bad. Said they had just done the same thing 2 weeks before on a coach. Works great now!! Went out on the way to Florida and was ready to trade coach for anything with roof air so I would at least have a backup.

When it works it is "very very good, but when it is bad it is awful."

Moder2 · 06-07-2007, 12:54 PM

Kokosfriend,

I agree, when it works it is an awesome system, when it does not, it can be aweful. Being optimistic, I am I could take the education from this experience so now I better understand how to "make it work".

I also will be picking up some starting caps to have as backups. That seems to be a major fail point.

John

JB Texas · 06-07-2007, 03:40 PM

Just about every problem that shows up on this forum, my rig has to emulate.

From leaky dump valves to no air conditioning. Wish you guys would stop finding so many problems so I can get some rest...

Got back today from putting some new shoes on the rig and had only warm air blowing. I found the jumper wire on the #1 compressor stage relay corroded and separated from the connector. As I was replacing it, I noticed a couple of other wires that are showing some signs of corrosion (ugly green stuff) that I will replace tomorrow. The good news is that I now have cool air

Mikey143 · 07-20-2011, 12:09 PM

Hey guys, this site is awesome. I have fixed so many problems myself from this site.

I have a 2003 Winnie Itasca Horizon 39QD with basement a/c. I turn it on, the first compressor comes on and runs, it begins to cool the coach down. The generator is running, the amps show about 13-14amps. the second compressor kicks in and the amps, which normally run about 24-26, are now running in the high 30's. One time it spiked to over 50amps and, of course, killed my generator and shutdown. I let it cool for a few minutes with just the fan running and restarted the a/c. This time it only got up to about 34 amps when the second comp kicked in. Where do I start on this one?