Assistance Please with Severe Undercarriage Rust & Corrosion on New 2005 Coach - Page 2

MrTransistor · 11-26-2005, 05:46 PM

Hi bbk3,
Before anything is done I would suggest contacting a metallurgist ASAP to determine what chemical reaction caused this. This appears to go way beyond simple salt caused rust. I just reviewed all your pictures and to affect Aluminum and Galvanized fittings as well as stainless steel (some of the fittings have to be stainless), makes it seem like something more corrosive is involved. I was born and raised on a dairy farm and what you have would seem to me to be abnormal after 10 or 15 years on bare steel parts. I don't remember disks or plow shears looking this bad after sitting outside all winter in W.Va. I have seen Aluminum pit like this but only after being buried in the dirt for many years.

tonigil · 11-26-2005, 05:46 PM

Check out these links......
New Petition
My Web Site
Discussion Forum
Toni

max49 · 11-26-2005, 07:30 PM

If this went to a jury, I'd bet you'd get a brand new MH and compensation for your troubles. But Winnie and Lazy Days could have yours back to sand blast , spray undercoating on and sell again.

bobpie · 11-27-2005, 03:00 AM

I agree with the previous poster in that the pictures look as though the rusting action was caused by something other road salt. I have used that "extend' and it does a good job. The rust on the driveshaft and the springs and heavy steel parts looks normal for these parts, but the fittings on the propane lines and coolant lines look a bit much. Possible fluid leakage and damage to the threads. This must be addressed to prevent further troubles. All coaches get to rust and fall apart. You all give your coach 9 or 10 years and chech it out real good and you will find it rusting away to nothing. Window & door frames, basement compartments etc. Thats the nature of the beast. Good luck with your lawsuits!

charliez · 11-28-2005, 08:01 AM

If you paid for undercoating, you got ripped off because you didn't get it. Some of the parts have factory handwriting on them from grease pencils. They haven't been coated with anything.

Easyrider · 11-28-2005, 03:42 PM

Your MH looks about like ours did when we took possession in February and in Wisconsin! The salt on the roads can do bad things in a hurry to the underside of any vehicle. The first decent day (50 degrees) we got I crawled under our MH with the garden hose and sprayed everything off as good as I could. Then as soon as we hit 70 degrees I got under there again and sprayed everything I could with X-O Rust spray paint. It looks pretty good after that treatment and the paint has held up well and stayed on- much to my wife's surprise - she thinks I was getting just a tad too anal about it. But when the MH is up on the jacks and you can see quite a bit of the undercarriage I'm glad I see black and not rust color!

CaptBill · 11-28-2005, 05:38 PM

Sorry for your troubles. I know this must be a sickening feeling. I looked at all your photo's, and it's clear to me that this coach was never undercoated. It's also pretty clear to me from living my life in the N.E, that this is road-salt that has been allowed to remain on the undercarriage. Unbelievable as it may seem, this is exactly what road salt and a humid/damp environment will do is a very short time. The Freightliner paint on the chassis should be considered no more than primer, and is no protection from rust. Other than the optional FACTORY undercoating, W.I. does nothing to the chassis paint that I know of.

I saw a M.H. up on a lift out in the back behind Lazydays service buildings, and they were "sand" blasting the underside of a big rig to prep it for undercoating. I'd be looking into this if I were you.

bbk3 · 11-28-2005, 06:01 PM

CaptBill: First, thanks for your reply. I'm not sure if you were aware of this or not, but we DID purchase the undercoating option -- option 24W. Which brings up another thought... if you haven't already, please look at my site http://www.rvguides.com/2005/ and read the story and click on the link that says "Gallery of a similar coach". This coach does NOT have undercoating according to the sticker -- see http://tinyurl.com/bwhub -- yet it is almost perfect. My question is this: Does anyone see anything that might suggest that this condition may have been "caused" or accelerated by something OTHER than an "undercoating substance" being applied in lieu of what should have been applied?

N8XV · 11-29-2005, 12:51 PM

I had said in a earlier post I though your rust was caused by road salt. But now I see you have said you paid to have the coach undercoated. I see nothing in the pictures that looks like any undercoating was ever applied. This may well be your real issue with Winnebago. Also I have seen several say that road salt will not cause corrosion on some of the parts shown. I don't agree with them. Also in the MH's transport to Florida some of the states may have been using some of the newer liquid anti ice chemicals, who knows what damage these can do. As I see it now your best argument is you paid for undercoating you did not get.

CaptBill · 11-29-2005, 02:33 PM

bbk3, to answer your question, yes, I did see the pictures, and I also saw that you paid for undercoating. But as I said, and Bill (N8XV) said, your pictures do not show any indication to me that there was any undercoating. So if you ordered factory undercoating, you have a legitimate beef with WI. They may offer to pay to have your coach undercarriage completely cleaned (soda-blasted is better that sand-blasting), re-painted and undercoated. If it were my MH, this I believe, would be an acceptable remedy. Lazy Days have the facilities to do this. I believe this might be the best approach, and I wish you good luck.

bbk3 · 11-30-2005, 03:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.Bill:
bbk3, to answer your question, yes, I did see the pictures, and I also saw that you paid for undercoating. But as I said, and Bill (N8XV) said, your pictures do not show any indication to me that there was any undercoating. So if you ordered factory undercoating, you have a legitimate beef with WI. They may offer to pay to have your coach undercarriage completely cleaned (soda-blasted is better that sand-blasting), re-painted and undercoated. If it were my MH, this I believe, would be an acceptable remedy. Lazy Days have the facilities to do this. I believe this might be the best approach, and I wish you good luck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Capt Bill,

Thanks for the post. Your comments are very interesting as I posed my situation recently to a manufacturer of a blast-cleaning product similar to what you mention. After reviewing the photos, the mfg's comment was, "There isn't a contractor worth his salt (no pun intended) who would even "touch" this job because of the inherent safety liability." Certainly a very powerful statement indeed; and even if only half true, it demands a reflective pause for consideration, especially for the new owner of said vehicle. Maybe if this vehicle were 10-12 years old and I had run it through the mill and this were my only option, I suppose that it would be better to choose to make "lemonade". Since, however, the age and use aforementioned is certainly NOT the case here, I ask myself why anyone would choose to accept this coach as a liability from the outset? Please understand, my comments are NOT meant to rebuke your comments. I am truly grateful for all the help that everyone has offered, as after all, this is what I requested of the forum. However, I am finding it very difficult to swallow the concept that the consumer who hands over their hard-earned money in a fair market transaction does not have the right to a reasonable expectation of a product's performance, based on what would be considered to be "industry norm". The consumer should not be forced to simply "deal with" or just "make due" with whatever is pushed off on to them. There are two sides to a fair, legitimate business transaction. Seems to me that the RV consumer is MUCH too accepting of this type of practice as is evidenced by the horror stories that we all read about daily on the forums. Both morally and financially, I cannot accept a situation such as this as American "business as usual". A brand new coach with a non-corroded and non-rusted undercarriage intended to provide years of safe service is absolutely NOT an UNrealistic and UNreasonable expectation in this situation. Capt Bill, please know that my reply is NOT directed personally.

Thank you.

CaptBill · 11-30-2005, 06:03 PM

bbk3,

Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed summation of what is all too often true, these days. And I agree with you that we, as buyers of quality products, we should have a right to expect better performance than is often delivered. But the problem that I see before you now, is that you have accepted delivery on this motorhome, and have put some time and miles behind you since then. Although I believe that this undercarriage corrosion may well have existed at time of delivery, if you didn't catch it in your PDI and refuse to accept the unit, I'm not so sure that you can return it now, for a new one. I hope that you can, but that may be a difficult goal to achieve. I do wish you good luck.

But if you were to consider a "plan B", I do believe that your undercarriage could be soda-blasted, painted and under-coated. If there are any questionable hoses fittings or the like, they could be replaced at that time. Then, when the work is completed, you should be offered an extended warranty.

Whichever way it goes, and I hope it goes well, please keep us posted here on the forum.

tonigil · 11-30-2005, 06:34 PM

I would like to know how many of us have checked the undercarriage of our MHs prior to accepting it? I learned the hard way from my first MH. The same as Bob did. Everyone after that one, I checked. I never thought that we had to crawl under a Motor Home. But, I guess we do. This is a good learning lesson for the rest of you guys. I can't see a 65 year old woman (Me) or an 81 year old man (my husband) crawling under a motor home. This doesn't sound right to me. Who can we trust these days? What a shame if this is what we pay big bucks for. It should be advertised that all of our MHs have rust. Deal with it. Right?
Sorry for the sarcasim.
Toni
New Proposal

bobpie · 12-04-2005, 04:37 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I am finding it very difficult to swallow the concept that the consumer who hands over their hard-earned money in a fair market transaction does not have the right to a reasonable expectation of a product's performance, based on what would be considered to be "industry norm". The consumer should not be forced to simply "deal with" or just "make due" with whatever is pushed off on to them. There are two sides to a fair, legitimate business transaction. Seems to me that the RV consumer is MUCH too accepting of this type of practice as is evidenced by the horror stories that we all read about daily on the forums. Both morally and financially, I cannot accept a situation such as this as American "business as usual". A brand new coach with a non-corroded and non-rusted undercarriage intended to provide years of safe service is absolutely NOT an UNrealistic and UNreasonable expectation in this situation. Capt Bill, please know that my reply is NOT directed personally.

Thank you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's what I have been saying to all with troubles since my joining this forum also. Very well stated bbk3. Take care. And good luck!

tonigil · 12-04-2005, 09:09 AM

I agree 100%
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> A brand new coach with a non-corroded and non-rusted undercarriage intended to provide years of safe service is absolutely NOT an UNrealistic and UNreasonable expectation in this situation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This statement should have been put into my proposal. I am adding this to the attachments when I send it into "the powers that be". My hats off to you.
Thank you,
Toni
New Petition Site

Gordo · 12-24-2005, 11:50 AM

I took delivery in 7/02 of a brand new Itasca 35U from Mike Thompson RV, Colton, Ca., while I lived there. It was not until I got it home and climbed underneath that I found a lot of rust, enough to cause a concern on my part as to the life of various items such as mufflers etc. Thompson said it was a Workhorse problem, they said it was a Winnebago problem etc.I got no satisfaction from Winnebago so I hounded Mike Thompson for over a month until they finally hoisted it on a rack, cleaned it off and repainted it to my satisfaction. Turned out it was not as bad as I thought it was but the moral of the story is ride em until they fall down.....

rebelsbeach · 12-24-2005, 12:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gordo:
I took delivery in 7/02 of a brand new Itasca 35U from Mike Thompson RV, Colton, Ca., while I lived there. It was not until I got it home and climbed underneath that I found a lot of rust, enough to cause a concern on my part as to the life of various items such as mufflers etc. Thompson said it was a Workhorse problem, they said it was a Winnebago problem etc.I got no satisfaction from Winnebago so I hounded Mike Thompson for over a month until they finally hoisted it on a rack, cleaned it off and repainted it to my satisfaction. Turned out it was not as bad as I thought it was but the moral of the story is ride em until they fall down..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we've all learned that "climbing underneath" should be an integral part of a complete PDI done BEFORE any money(other then the deposit) changes hands.

Radarr · 12-25-2005, 05:59 AM

This topic has certainly carried itself a long way and enlighten all us of to the facts that most of us never considered, especially the way the manufacture and the dealer has responded to this customer. I can tell you from our past experiences with the manufacture and what we do in the future, either it be buying a new coach or dealing with a dealer, has been and will be greatly influenced by this article.

One things for sure, I'll be carring a pair of Coveralls with us when we go shopping in the future.

radarr

"God Bless America"

rebelsbeach · 12-25-2005, 07:26 AM

Must be Christmas.....I agree with radarr...

The education I have recieved from these forums on matters just like this have proved to be a valuable tool in not only the search "mechanism" I used for my second motorhome,but the process I will be using to do a thorough PDI before I take delivery and write that check to the dealer.
From this forum and one's similar to it,I have gained not only a better understanding of the purchase process,but the process of having the "right" option for the right purpose.
Case in point, I am making plans to take a trip to San Antonio to have the Howard Precision Center Steer installed on my coach. Had I not had the opportunity to search these forums,I may not have gained that knowledge and even if I did,it would not have been in the timely fashion it was.
Had I not seen a post on insurance by radarr,I might have missed the chance to get the deal on insurance I was able to get.

Sorry for the rant,but I truly feel these forums are beneficial.

Thanks to Admin and all the moderators that spend their time keeping it going and thanks to each and every one of my fellow posters that take the time to share their knowledge and experiences with all of us.

Best wishes for a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year.

The Shadow · 12-25-2005, 08:50 AM

Having had a similar experience with my Journey I did take my coveralls with me when it came time to move to MH number 3. I too would advise every purchaser to do the same. When we bought the Journey it ws new and it didn't even occur to me to roll underneath and look. When we bought our first MH (a 3 year old gasser) I certainly did look underneath - it was immaculate (double automotive undercoating). Also got up on the roof and inspected it - also immaculate. Who would have expected that you have to do that with a new unit?

Thank goodness one doesn't have to do that with cars since I'd get stuck very easily.