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Old 05-13-2011, 10:55 PM   #1
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Allure Ultra Vinyl Laminate Install

The carpet in Wanda (our 2002 Winnebago Adventurer 32V) is 9 years old and looking pretty sad. We decided to rip it out and install some kind of wood plank look flooring. After pouring for hours over all of the related posts I could find on irv2.com we decided to go with the Allure Ultra vinyl plank product available at Home Depot. They have several Allure products, the Allure Ultra is the most current, and it is a snap lock product and appears to be a significant improvement over the less expensive Allure product joined with the adhesive strips. I was concerned with the 95 degree heat limitation of the previous product, as I know interior temperatures an MH in summer storage well exceeds 100 degrees. I was disappointed to see that Allure Ultra still has the same temperature limitation; I am hoping it was left over from the adhesive temp limitations of the previous Allure product. I like the texture of the vinyl product as opposed to the smooth surface of most engineered or laminate products. Being waterproof and having a lifetime warranty (questionable if installed in a MH) were strong positives in its favor. I picked up 8 boxes, 160 sf, of the Allure Ultra in Clear Cherry, which was a stock item and matched the natural color of our Oak cabinets very well. The price is just under $3.00 per sf. I weighed a box and figure on about 2 pounds per square foot, pretty heavy stuff. I was looking at the darker rustic color of the Vintage Oak Cinnamon as a nice contrast, but my DW Anne seemed quite intent on the lighter matching color, and that worked for me too. The light cherry did not seem to be a problem against the light oak cabinets.
There are a lot of good posts on laminate installation, but they seem to be bits and pieces. I hope that this is a more comprehensive thread that will be useful to those undertaking a floating plank floor. Many ideas from others were incorporated here and they really helped; for instance the use of an air chisel. Please feel free to add your comments and suggestions. I am going to post this install all at once when I have it completed so you can read the whole thing and comment afterward if you want. More like a blog I guess. I did the text in Word as I went along, then just cut and pasted into the thread. Here is a link to my Picasa album which contains all of the photos that might be usefulas well of a few "before" pics, note the stain at the step that didn't want to come out:

(click on the thumbnails to make the pic bigger, and twice more if you want them really big )


https://picasaweb.google.com/1008916...COSTke38sNLDKQ#
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Ole and Anne Anderson, Highland, Michigan
'02 Adventurer 32V, Ford F-53, ours since 4/08,Goodyears, Konis, SeeLevel, CHF
'84 CJ-7 , 5.3 Chevy, 3" lift, 33's, Detroit Locker, Fiberglas tub, winch, hi-lift
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:58 PM   #2
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Day one: The dinette table and the dinette itself were removed. By removing the drawers and boards under the cushions, all of the screws securing the dinette were easy to access. The dinette was moved in 2 pieces onto the bed temporarily. The carpet under the dinette was removed. By cutting the carpet at the front and folding it down, the wood trim at the kick can be unscrewed, making easy access to the staples securing the carpet under the kick. I will make a wood trim piece to replace the rounded trim that was removed. The carpet at the short kick at the rear is secured by screws, easily removed with a stubby Phillips. I see no reason to replace the carpet under the couch, so removing that awkward piece of furniture isn’t required. Once cleaned off, the dinette area made a good staging area for the driver, passenger and reclining chairs. I removed the 3 wide wood trim pieces at the top and sides of the slide. As it was raining, I left the metal trim and rubber seals in place for now.
The second toughest job was removing the bolts holding the driver and passenger seat pedestals in place. The ˝” hardened bolts were very rusted. It took a big Harbor Freight breaker bar and my ironworker son working under the chassis with me inside to bust loose the bolts and remove the nuts. Only 2 of the 8 nuts came off with my IR impact gun. After struggling on the passenger side we ended up cutting off the last of the bolts with a grinder. PB Blaster helped but the nuts were seizing up on the bolts due to the heavy rust. We learned our lesson and chased the threads on the driver side first with a ˝’ NF die, and that really helped, but we still needed a breaker bar to bust them loose before we could run them off with the air gun.
I removed the side table behind the passenger seat along with the front floor registers and the floor surround speaker along with a 3’x3’ piece of carpet. End day one, 6 man-hours.
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Ole and Anne Anderson, Highland, Michigan
'02 Adventurer 32V, Ford F-53, ours since 4/08,Goodyears, Konis, SeeLevel, CHF
'84 CJ-7 , 5.3 Chevy, 3" lift, 33's, Detroit Locker, Fiberglas tub, winch, hi-lift
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:01 PM   #3
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Day Two: Weather looks good, so I pulled off the inside metal trim (top and sides) so I could move the slide farther out. I was surprised that the top consisted of not just the wood trim, but two layers of metal individually screwed on with the seal attached. Even with the inside trim and seal removed, the exterior seal will keep out the rain, so no hurry to replace the trim. Hit the extend button and the slide moved about 2 or 3 inches before it hit its limit, but not enough to get to the edge as I was expecting. But it was enough to cut the carpet at the edge of the moveable floor, so when in its normal position, the cut carpet and edge of the new floor would be a few inches under the edge and not in view. I pulled up the rest of the carpet forward of the hall (except the step which I will do later). Let me just say that you will save yourself a LOT of work if you stop where the plywood floor meets the metal floor in the driver cockpit area. Not just unbolting the seats, the driver assist pole, the driver step well, the passenger seat belt and removing the doghouse, but pulling up the carpet and padding which is glued at the perimeter to the floor and wood strips with something that should be outlawed. After 9 years, it is still VERY sticky and VERY tenacious. To pull it up, I had to fold over a corner of the carpet, attach a 4” C clamp to use as a handle and nearly bust a gut to pull it loose. The wood strips at the perimeter were glued down with what looked like hot glue which required running up to the hardware store to pick up an air chisel to help remove the strips. And of course they had to use the evil glue on the carpet pad as well. I ended up leaving an 8” strip of carpet at the very front of the driver’s feet as the whole thing was glued down and cutting around all of the obstructions seemed more than I could handle. Even the bolt heads were covered in glue, soaking them in acetone for hours didn’t even melt the stuff. End day two, 5 hours.
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Ole and Anne Anderson, Highland, Michigan
'02 Adventurer 32V, Ford F-53, ours since 4/08,Goodyears, Konis, SeeLevel, CHF
'84 CJ-7 , 5.3 Chevy, 3" lift, 33's, Detroit Locker, Fiberglas tub, winch, hi-lift
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:03 PM   #4
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Day three: I spent hours trying to get the carpet pad off the steel floor, this was the single hardest part. Now wishing I had stopped with the carpet removal when I hit the metal floor, too late now, no going back. I continued pulling staples in the living room area. In the middle of this we had 6 hour a power outage, fired up Wanda’s 7 KW genset and ran my 20 amp 220 volt wire to my main house panel. Sweet. After doing much internet surfing, I finally found the installation manual for Allure Ultra planks. It said the material needs to be acclimated to the room for 48 hours at between 65 and 85 degrees. Not going to happen for the first segment as it was down to 62 degrees in the MH overnight. Got the heat now set at 75. I used about 5 pounds of leveling compound to fill the gap between the plywood and steel floor, and the knotholes in the plywood. I finally started the install and completed the dinette floor area, using just over one box. Went down quite easy, but then the dinette is the only rectangular install I will have. End day three, another 5 hours.
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'02 Adventurer 32V, Ford F-53, ours since 4/08,Goodyears, Konis, SeeLevel, CHF
'84 CJ-7 , 5.3 Chevy, 3" lift, 33's, Detroit Locker, Fiberglas tub, winch, hi-lift
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:07 PM   #5
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Day four: Cut and installed a piece of cherry as a trim at the step down at the dinette. Rough sanded the floor to find any missed staples and to smooth the leveling compound. Thermostat (I think) died and no gas or electric heat, even when the genset is running. It has been in the 40’s at night, should have stayed in FL till the end of April. Oh well, next year’s reservation will fix that. I ran out and got a cheap electric heater to at least keep the boxes of planks up to temp. 2 boxes of planks were installed starting at the main floor at the dinette and running forward. Spent a considerable amount of time planning how to mate the planks from the rear of the MH with those I already have on the floor. A nice square bedroom in the house would be a piece of cake compared to this. Another 6 hours on day four, did I mention I tend to work at half speed and would never be able to make a living doing this?

Day Five: I ran the engine to heat up the interior this morning, the electric heater kept the bedroom warm where the planks were stored. The dinette was reinstalled to free up room in the bedroom where the carpet needs to be pulled up. Pulled up the rest of the carpet, raising the bed frame (slide) by loosening two ˝” nuts under the bed and pulling up on the frame with the room retracted 4”. Inspected the part that slides on the carpet, it is a thin plastic piece that slides into an extrusion. I will cut some vinyl strips to lie on the floor just as I retract the room afraid that the plastic will scratch the vinyl if any sand gets on the floor. The two weight bearing slides nearer the head of the bed are nearly inaccessible, and will be left to bear on the remaining carpet under the bed. Not sure what to do with the slides for the living room sliding wall. I am hoping they actually float above the floor until touchdown at full retract. I de-stapled, sanded (80 grit) and vacuumed the floor in the rear. I will be leaving the existing cheap vinyl flooring in the commode room and in front of the shower. Ready to really hit the plank install tomorrow. End day five, 9 hours.
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Ole and Anne Anderson, Highland, Michigan
'02 Adventurer 32V, Ford F-53, ours since 4/08,Goodyears, Konis, SeeLevel, CHF
'84 CJ-7 , 5.3 Chevy, 3" lift, 33's, Detroit Locker, Fiberglas tub, winch, hi-lift
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:11 PM   #6
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Day six: To maintain the continuity front to back, I snapped a chalk line the length of the MH along what will be the edge of the first continuous plank line. The shower juts into the MH breaking it into almost 2 rooms. I pulled up the old vinyl plank floor in the kitchen area, here the air chisel worked wonders. I was left with a sticky floor, so after making sure there were no staples or bumps left, with help from Anne, we covered it with aluminum foil so the new floor could float. I managed to install 3 or 4 boxes of planks. End day six, 8 hours.

Day seven: I was hoping to make a God like proclamation of being completed on the seventh day (it was Sunday) but it didn’t happen. Busy day, I only had a few hours available. About a box of planks got installed, including a multi-notch cut plank in the galley area. Don’t know how I would do it without my table saw, too bad it is in the basement. No way can all the work be done without a saw of some type. Tried a jig saw, but the backing is very abrasive and quickly dulled the blade. I put an old carbide blade on my cabinet saw, didn’t want to ruin my good blade. Any cross cuts were scored and snapped, like drywall; lengthwise cuts were ripped on my table saw. I found that a small craft type razor knife with the snap off blade worked best. When it gets dull, just snap off the end and you have a new cutting point. I used a carpenter’s speed square (metal) to guide the knife when scoring the perpendicular cuts, but it was an inch too short, no problem, just leave the knife in the last scored groove and flip the triangle to the other side of the plank and finish the last inch, usually three cuts each direction. Like dry wall, once snapped, you need to run the blade down the back to cut the plank backing. I picked up two more boxes of planks and some aluminum trim where the new vinyl abuts carpet at the driver’s feet or thin vinyl at the shower and commode room. Also picked up some step edge aluminum molding. End day seven, 2 hours. End week one, 41 man hours. I just thought I was retired! But frankly, I am loving it
and can’t wait to hit it again tomorrow as I am getting close.
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'84 CJ-7 , 5.3 Chevy, 3" lift, 33's, Detroit Locker, Fiberglas tub, winch, hi-lift
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:13 PM   #7
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Day eight: Finally got the entire floor covered save the small places next to the bed. A lot of trimming in front of the galley required plunge cuts on the TS for the registers and oblique cuts that I knew would be trouble to score and snap. I found that a sharp chisel works well for cutting small notches difficult to do with a saw. I am really trying to keep the floor “floating” so I am trimming the vinyl just outside the bolt pattern and elevating the seat pedestal with 3 washers so it floats above the vinyl. Also laid down aluminum foil where I couldn’t get the glue off the metal floor. The farther I get into the project, the slower I am going, I am in no hurry, the subdivision rules police haven’t given me any warning letters yet about MH storage. End day eight, 7 hours.
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Ole and Anne Anderson, Highland, Michigan
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'84 CJ-7 , 5.3 Chevy, 3" lift, 33's, Detroit Locker, Fiberglas tub, winch, hi-lift
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:18 PM   #8
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Day nine: Finished the floor in the bed area, installed the passenger seat and cut the register vents and speaker holes with a solid carbide Ľ”laminate bit in my trim router. Managed to dull that bit, the grey material in the plank has aluminum oxide which is abrasive. For the driver seat, I used a 2” hole saw to cut thru the vinyl at each bolt hole to utilize the 3 stacked washers like I did on the passenger seat. I started installing the quarter round. I used up 22 feet in a flash, so I got another 33 feet for tomorrow. End day nine, 6 hours.

Day ten: Finished the floor and trim, reinstalled the seats, put the bed back together, all that is left is to finish the stair well and test the front slide so I can reinstall that trim. Made good use of my 18 gauge brad nailer using 1-3/8” brads. Chalk up another 7 hours for day 10.
Day eleven: Finished the stair well and checked the front slide. I tried my tip of using superglue on the joints to make sure they don’t separate and it worked well. I used Loctite PL Premium Advanced construction adhesive (from HD) to glue the planks to the sides of the stairwell and the top tread where I removed carpet. Per instructions, I misted the hard surface of the stairwell and planks with water to speed the initial tack, seemed to do the trick. Looks like I will need to temporarily lay down 3 strips to save the floor from the front slider. The slide ramped up on the remaining carpet without catching, so that worry was unfounded. It was a short day with other commitments. Day eleven, 4 hours.

Day twelve: Reinstalled the seals and trim around the front slide, installed the driver assist pole/grab, finished the aluminum trim at the sides of the stairwell and gave the floor a final sweeping. Project done. Day twelve, 2 hours. Total time, at my usual snail’s pace was 67 hours. Everyone is happy with the new look and sweeping out the sand from the beach, dunes and campgrounds will be a breeze.
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'84 CJ-7 , 5.3 Chevy, 3" lift, 33's, Detroit Locker, Fiberglas tub, winch, hi-lift
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:19 PM   #9
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Handy tips:
· I couldn’t have done the job and kept my sanity without lots of tools: speed square, snap off razor knife, air chisel, brad nailer, claw hammer, dead blow hammer, good pliers, small flat blade screwdriver to get under stubborn stables, table saw, jig saw for curved cuts, wonder bar, tape measure, sharp chisel, band saw (after I dulled my only jig saw blade). Pencils mark fine on the vinyl. Without a table saw, you could use a circular saw or better yet; a small blade flooring circ saw. Carbide circ saw blades are a must, have extra jig saw blades on hand if you plan on using that tool. A sharp wood chisel works well for small cuts where you can’t score and snap or get a saw blade to fit.
· The air chisel made quick work of pulling up the glued down vinyl planks in the galley and the glued down wood strips on the metal floor as well as the glued down foam pad on the metal floor. Every major job deserves a new tool, this was mine. Under $30. This little puppy will see more work when I have to remove ceramic tile on my home. I already had a 1 hp compressor.
· I don’t get their instructions about sliding the planks before clicking. Just start by inserting the ends of the planks together all but the width of the tongue on the long side (yes you need about a 10 degree angle to seat the ends too). Push the long sides together while lifting the new plank and part of the previously installed plank about 10 degrees. While holding that position, using a mallet or soft dead blow hammer tap the new ends the last little bit to seat the beginning long edge, then with lots of pressure push the long side together and lay flat. As long as you don’t see any grey in the crack you did it right. Any grey, do it over again. A tiny bit of grey in the long joint near the board ends can be fixed by setting a short piece of hardwood on top of the tongue and smacking it with the hammer to seat the tongue in the groove.
· Just before you start laying planks, thoroughly vacuum the entire floor. Before you lay each plank again check to feel that the floor is free of any bumps or debris that will eventually telegraph through the vinyl. You don’t want to find a bump as you are installing the final trim.
· Plan on starting at the driver side rear of the coach and lay the planks with the short tongue facing the wall. Instructions say you can do it either way, hmm…
· Think hard about the extra work necessary to install planking from the engine firewall rearward to where the wood floor starts.
· If you see that you didn’t get a good joint a few rows back, fix it now, don’t keep going. It doesn’t take that long to pull up and reinstall a half dozen planks.
· Keep in mind that the floor must float, don’t be tempted to glue or staple the edges. Use quarter round to hold a narrow strip flush to the floor at the wall if you didn’t superglue the joint. Nail trim into the wall, not the floor. Let the vinyl float around the air registers. That being said, there are times it will be difficult to follow that rule, bolting the seats to the floor and securing the dinette to its floor are examples that come to mind. If there is adhesive on the floor remove or cover it with aluminum foil so the planks don’t stick to old glue. I did allow the vinyl to float under the seats by elevating the seats on 3 washers and keeping the vinyl at least 1/8” from the washers.
· If you need to remove rusted seat bolts, hit them with a penetrating lube well ahead of time and chase the threads first with a die.
· Cut and snapping the vinyl plank works better than cutting drywall. No need to cut all the way thru, 3 passes with a razor knife point is all it takes, snap it and run the blade down the hinge and you are done. But frankly, if you have access to a 12” power miter saw that is the way to go when cutting across the plank if you can place the saw so you have quick access. With my 10” MS, I had to flip the plank. I did manage to completely dull my new band saw blade, but it was real handy for odd cuts.
· If you have a narrow strip that doesn’t want to stay connected or lay flat, run a bead of super glue along the tongue and it will become one with the other plank. I like Gorilla Glue brand of super glue as it is thicker and more gel like than the cheap brands. I wish I would have tried it sooner.
· Cut some strips of vinyl, tapering the ends as a ramp, and lay them on the floor just before retracting the room. Black side up. This will avoid the skids scratching the new vinyl if you aren’t able to install a short pile carpet on the skids. They will store under the couch.
· Keep track of where the different screw types (at least 5 types) go. I ended up with a few left over, and couldn’t remember where the white vs black screws always went.
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:14 AM   #10
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Ole,
Can't believe no comments on this post. Fantastic job you did on the flooring and an equally good job of documenting it. This should be added to the files section, so it doesn't just fall off the first page and "disappear"!

I think this is more than I could tackle, but sure wish I could. We would like to get rid of the shabby carpet too. I'm just a little concerned about the interaction with the slideouts. Please let us know if you have any long term problems with the big slide.

Thanks for an excellent writeup!
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:12 AM   #11
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Excellent work and an even better write up! Thanks so much for doing that.

We have replaced the carpet in our Itasca Ellipse with the original Allure and faced many of the challenges you outline. Going for that "flat floor" look from nose to tail led to me using leveling compound and 1/4" plywood underlayment where carpet had been. This has caused some interferance with our slides when they are retracted so we do have a few scratches. I think I can replace the scratched planks and (although I've gotten conflicting input on this) adjust the slides to retract slightly higher than they do now.

Probably due to the slides riding too tightly on the floor when being retracted, we couldn't maintain the floating aspect of the floor. Retracting the slides caused the entire floor to bubble in the middle so I have secured it with carpet tacks along the edge when it meets the slides. No problem after a year now.

Great work!

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Old 05-15-2011, 10:48 AM   #12
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This is a well written and document project that will help anyone thinking of doing this project in their RV.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:54 AM   #13
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You might want to edit the title of this post so as to avoid misinterpretation. As you note in your text, Allure is a luxury vinyl product not a laminate. I think the term laminate is best used with Pergo-type products. Many people are unfamiliar with the newer luxury vinyls and you have done a great job showing how they can be used in an RV application.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:55 AM   #14
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Great job on your floor and nice writeup with detail that is easy to follow. I noticed that you had a floor overhang over the stairwell. This was really smart because it covers the 2" gap when the stair cover is extended. Another cool thing about your installation is your use of tin foil to cover the glue residue remaining on the subfloor, thereby allowing the Allure to "float".
Nice job and documentation is much appreciated by all of us.

jim & debbie, 04 Journey 34H
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Old 05-15-2011, 04:49 PM   #15
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Just saw this post late last night and printed it out to really go over your detailed discription. I am going to be doing this same thing here very soon and your pictures and notes and instructions and ideas are very much appreciated.

One tool I believe would have really helped would have been one of those new Dremal Multi-Max saws. There are many tool makers that offer that type saw. They can do the scraping, and plunge cuts and tiny little cuts to make something fit. I am amazed how this tool can cut, scrape and sand and even cut metal if needed.

Great looking job and great write up and pictures. Thanks alot.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:12 PM   #16
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Great instructions and pics. I had started a like project starting behind the cockpit and to the bedroom. We had a death in the family and it putting a halt on the project for a few days. I am also removing the dinette and putting in wall cabinets, shelf and free standing table and chairs. Our project will be much easier thanks to your instructions here.

Thanks
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docj View Post
You might want to edit the title of this post so as to avoid misinterpretation. As you note in your text, Allure is a luxury vinyl product not a laminate. I think the term laminate is best used with Pergo-type products. Many people are unfamiliar with the newer luxury vinyls and you have done a great job showing how they can be used in an RV application.





Thanks for the kudos. Makes the extra time to do the write up worth it. I wanted laminate in the thread title because folks, like me, found that by doing a search for laminate turned up the most threads. If I could edit the thread title, it would be "Allure Ultra Vinyl Laminate Install (Blog)". Don't know how to do that without asking an administrator to do it for me. This project helped me understand the difference between wood look flooring types.
  • Solid wood: A 3/8" to 3/4" thick T&G flooring, either prefinished or sanded and finished after installation, usually installed with nails. Also available with a click and lock joint so it floats.
  • Engineered wood: A thin or thick veneer of real wood laminated to a premium plywood substrate and normally with a click and lock joint. Less subseptable to water damage than a laminate. Typically installed so it floats, although it can be glued down in some cases.
  • Laminate: The surface is a photo of sorts on top of a fiberboard substrate with a click and lock joint, installed so it floats. More likely to sustain damage if it gets soaked when the fiberboard swells.
  • Vinyl: A type of laminate where the top surface is a solid vinyl over a waterproof mineral based substrate, with either a click and lock joint or an adhesive lap joint and allowed to float, or in some cases planks simply butted together and glued down. Vinyl is more flexible than other types and will conform better to uneven floors, thereby not needing a foam backer pad.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:34 AM   #18
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Beautiful!

We are installing the same flooring in our Alumascape FW. We had to install rollers on the front edge of our slide but now that that's done, we've actually started installation. Will take awhile, though, because we have other things that have to be tended to the next few weekends.

liz
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Old 05-16-2011, 02:40 PM   #19
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Ole, that is just AWE-SOME!!! I love "How-To" write ups like this. Too often people leave out a lot of details, but you got it all there along with a nice summary and after-thoughts.

KUDOS, PROPS, REP and anything else we can bestow upon you!
Now I just need to do the same to my coach.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:46 PM   #20
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Thanks for the well thought out writeup ! Your experienced reminded me of why I did not remove the carpet on the sheet metal..GLUE!
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