86 outside - 82 inside - AC running all day? - Page 2

Hikerdogs · 08-22-2016, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrprn

We have a 2014 Itasca Suncruiser 32H and live in N. AZ where temps reach the 108+ range in summer. Our two heat pumps running on high cool can only ever cool the coach to 82. We added window awnings and the rolled foil over the windshield and front side windows to help keep the sun blocked with slight improvement. Our exterior colors are silver tones. Your coach is bigger than ours so your units might be functioning normally and are too "energy efficient" to cool any more. I would have them checked by a regular AC repair shop. We've had some bad results from dealerships who say everything's fine when it isn't especially under warranty. Contact Winnebago, they are are easy to deal with. By the way when it's hot, our Norcold refrigerator sometimes quits so we have to always travel with at least 1 really big ice chest. BOL in getting your units functioning to your satisfaction.

Personally I believe you would be better to contact Airxcel at their support number rather than Winnebago.
Coleman Mach - Service & Support Information | Airxcel

Airxcel (Coleman) only authorizes Winnebago to replace a complete defective unit regardless of whether it's under warranty or not. Winnebago doesn't do any repair work on these units.

We had a Mach 8 refuse to switch to the heat pump mode in our 2013 Adventurer. Winnebago's only option was to replace the entire unit for $1695.00 including labor. I called the Airxcel support number to explain the problem. After a few minutes on the phone with a technician I went out and did a little diagnosis on the unit. It turned out to be a bad control module. The control module normally costs $280.00 which is far less expensive than a complete air conditioner.

The technician sent me the control module and 2 of the new style 3 blade fans at no charge as a goodwill gesture. Everything now works as it should. Thanks Airxcel.

grtharris · 08-22-2016, 02:49 PM

Floridakamper, Your AC system has two holes in the roof one for cold air discharge and one for the return air. There was a post some time back were the seal was missing between the cold air discharge and return air so a lot of the air was just going around and not out to the coach. Here is a couple of pictues. One is a drawing showing the bottom of the AC unit, the blue bar is the seal. The other picture is our unit with all of the covers removed. (Note: yours might not look like mine because I have cleaned up all of the extra wire.) To check the seal you can use an inspection mirror.
The condensate pump is on the right side next to the condenser coil.

Floridakamper · 08-23-2016, 07:43 PM

grtharris, thanks for the info and illustrations.

jrpend · 08-24-2016, 10:25 AM

I have not been impressed with the cooling ability of the two air conditioners on my 2016 Suncruiser 37F. The can't seem to stay ahead of the heat on a hot day. The Camping World tech told me they were working as expected - after they replace one that was under warranty.

kwilkins · 08-28-2016, 12:50 PM

This is the original poster. All week long we had the same problem with the inside temp being only 6 to 8 degrees cooler than the outside. If it was 88 outside it was 82 inside. All windows and vents closed, night shades and solar shades down on every window and the windshield. RV tech said both heat pumps are working properly, cool air coming out is over 20 degrees cooler then the ambient air.

Today we are home with the RV in our driveway which has shade on 3 sides. It is 90 degrees outside and the RV is 70 inside, so it is working fine when the RV is not in the sun. During the week around mid-day the walls on the inside of the RV were very warm, and inside the cabinets it was VERY hot, a stick of deodorant in the cabinet melted.

My suspicion is the RV was not insulated properly or they are using some kind of new insulation that does nor work properly. In the campground there was Winnebago like ours (same model and length, different floor plan) from 2012 that was having no problem keeping his RV cold. Ours is a dark maroon color and the 2012 was black. I was thinking it might be the dark color was the only problem, but it wasn't a problem on the darker 2012.

Americanrascal · 08-28-2016, 01:27 PM

We've been trying manipulating discharge vent alignment on ours as we face almost the exact same condition. The only exception is our rig is silver colored and is likely reflecting a bit better than a darker rig so we might be faring a small but better.

We've had some success in reducing heat pockets in the front cab and living area where it seems to be the worst. Can't say how we did it-- more trial and error than anything, but adjusting the deflectors and finding a sweet spot has helped some. Have both a/c units set for high or auto cool with 68 degrees as the setting.

Its rather sweltering here in Georgia this year. Early in our ownership we could not ride up front without the dash air, but with out adjustments we are OK now with the back two coach a/c units running .

Podivin · 08-28-2016, 01:39 PM

I'm assuming these are ducted units. If so stick your cell phone into the duct and take a few pictures, checking to see if there are any openings/breaks in the duct where cold air is escaping. While I tend to agree this may be an insulation issue, doing this check can't hurt.

We were camping at the beach in Florida last weekend, 95 degrees, no shade at the site. Our 20 old AC was doing a reasonable job of keeping the coach cool. But the only reason it could is because I had reflectix in the west side windows, and a cover over the windshield (facing east).
Before I we had those ours would only be slightly cooler inside during the day (though you could hang meat in there at night).
So if you don't already have those two things you might consider getting them. They certainly made a difference for us!

Coffie Drink · 08-30-2016, 02:12 AM

I had a issue with my 15 View where it would cool at 79 but not at higher temps. I fought with the dealer and after two trips and 3 weeks they replaced my HP. What I found was the cooling was strong with the new unit. Don't worry about your fixes or window cover. Get them replaced. If it's hot out the should blow cold air. Very cold air, not sorta cold but very cold. If they do this then the AC is good and you may have othe issues.

Floridakamper · 08-30-2016, 02:06 PM

We started a 7 week trip in our one week old Suncruiser 38Q. We're trying not to let the lack of proper AC in the front of the coach ruin the trip and we're hoping for cooler temps soon. Today in Richmond, Va., the outside temp is 92 degrees. The inside temp by the tv and forward is 88. We left the motorhome for a few hours today with the cabinets closed above the dash that hold the matrix and Directv receiver. Both boxes shut down because of high temps. The Directv box said it was 65 degrees centigrade and shut down to cool. Instead of telling us that our AC's are cooling properly, you'd think Winnebago would want to figure out what's wrong. This can't be good PR for prospective customers. I called their customer service number and they said to take it up with either Coleman or the dealer (who already told me it's working fine).

Americanrascal · 08-31-2016, 05:08 PM

That's a very disappointing response from Winnebago to say the least! At a minimum if they and your dealer believe this is a Coleman problem they should be advocating with Coleman on your behalf!

This is a very real problem and it's time for Winnebago, the dealer and Coleman to step up and address it!

Hittntheroad · 08-31-2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Podivin

I'm assuming these are ducted units. If so stick your cell phone into the duct and take a few pictures, checking to see if there are any openings/breaks in the duct where cold air is escaping. While I tend to agree this may be an insulation issue, doing this check can't hurt.

We were camping at the beach in Florida last weekend, 95 degrees, no shade at the site. Our 20 old AC was doing a reasonable job of keeping the coach cool. But the only reason it could is because I had reflectix in the west side windows, and a cover over the windshield (facing east).
Before I we had those ours would only be slightly cooler inside during the day (though you could hang meat in there at night).
So if you don't already have those two things you might consider getting them. They certainly made a difference for us!

I just did this on my Thor Ace 30.1. I wasn't impressed with the duct system as far as I could see. There are places the air can leak into the ceiling system. Looked like the duct has a side and top but relies on the ceiling for the bottom of the duct which is fine if the ceiling is perfectly straight and level which I doubt it is. I also noticed where the power and control wires were routed through the roof supports there was lots of potential for return air to be sucked in from between the roof supports and discharge air could be blown into the roof supports. I sealed all these with spray foam.
Also note the power wire coming through the rough hole cut into the roof support. I cushioned it with plastic before filling with foam. Go figure the most important wire without protection.

Hittntheroad · 08-31-2016, 05:53 PM

The return side hole had a plastic bushing protecting it.

TXiceman · 08-31-2016, 05:54 PM

I do not understand all of the poor cooling issues of late. Our RV in the signature has two 15kbtuh heat pumps and we can maintain 76 degF in the unit in 102 degree weather in full sun.

I have seen a number of RVs with poor insulation, a poor installation of the A/C and lots of dirty filters.

One Winnebago diesel pusher where we are now has the Reflectix aluminum bubble insulation across the forward roof area to help out.

A couple of gas class A's we had hardly any insulation in that huge heat capturing cap on the front. On investigation, the rear cap was poorly insulated as well.

If you run the fans on high and measure the air temperature in and out of the unit as close to the unit as possible, the leaving air should be 20 degF (=/- 2 degF) lower than the inlet temperature. Use a thermometer and not an infrared (laser) temperature gun. It measures surface temperatures and not air temperature.

If you are about 20 degF delta temperature, the unit is doing all that it can and you need to start looking at insulation and installation.

Ken

Hittntheroad · 08-31-2016, 06:01 PM

Here is a pic of the duct. Note the silver vertical is the side and below is top of the ceiling panel can't imagine this is sealed very good since this runs all the way from front to back.

Jupiter · 08-31-2016, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXiceman

I do not understand all of the poor cooling issues of late. Our RV in the signature has two 15kbtuh heat pumps and we can maintain 76 degF in the unit in 102 degree weather in full sun.

I have seen a number of RVs with poor insulation, a poor installation of the A/C and lots of dirty filters.

One Winnebago diesel pusher where we are now has the Reflectix aluminum bubble insulation across the forward roof area to help out.

A couple of gas class A's we had hardly any insulation in that huge heat capturing cap on the front. On investigation, the rear cap was poorly insulated as well.

If you run the fans on high and measure the air temperature in and out of the unit as close to the unit as possible, the leaving air should be 20 degF (=/- 2 degF) lower than the inlet temperature. Use a thermometer and not an infrared (laser) temperature gun. It measures surface temperatures and not air temperature.

If you are about 20 degF delta temperature, the unit is doing all that it can and you need to start looking at insulation and installation.

Ken

Ken,
I agree. Lately, it does seem like an awful lot of coach A/C's are straining to keep things comfortable. Yes, if your getting a 20 degree delta T with your cooling unit, you need to look at other factors as mentioned. Oddly, it also seems like many of the earlier coaches seem to be able to better maintain their cool.

In addition to factors like insulation, darker colors and less efficient rooftop units, later models often have full wall slides or maybe three or four slide which means additional square feet of interior space to cool along with end walls of slides exposed to the sun, not to mention air filtration at all those slide. Roughly calculated, a three slides 36' coach can have 20% or more cubic feet of coach space versus a non-slide coach.

FWIW, in my opinion I think the newer Coleman Mach units are way too noisy both outside and inside, and I'm skeptical that they actually produce at their rated value.

Cheers,
Joopy

Coffie Drink · 09-01-2016, 02:16 PM

I wasted a lot of time this year trying to fix my Mac8 HP. In a word stop. Go to dealer and tell them to fix or better replace. Winnebago owns the problem in year one. Coleman and their Distributer owned the problem in year two. There does seem to be a issue with fixing the units. You can see my history in the Sprinter side of the forum. Don't let them play around with it. It should blow very cold air, just like your front AC or your car AC. I will bet that your doesn't.
KH

kwilkins · 09-02-2016, 06:42 AM

Our RV issue is clearly NOT a problem with the heat pumps blowing cold air. Both units continuously blow air that is more than 20 degrees below the ambient air. The simple explanation is the sun heats up the RV to the point where the A/C can't keep it cool. Here is part of an email I sent to our dealer describing the issue in details. See the paragraph near the end that describes how the RV will stay cool in 90 degree temperature if it is in shade not sun:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

• The RV will not stay cool inside.

This last issue is the most concerning because it seems to be a design problem. Much of our vacation was spent trying to understand why the RV would not stay cool even though both heat-pumps were constantly putting out cool air. Both our dealer and a mobile RV repair company certified that both heat-pumps are working properly. The air coming out is more than 20 degrees colder then the ambient air.
We spent the week in Cape Hatteras where the temperatures ranged from a low of 74 to a high of 88, most days the high temperature was 82 to 84. During the day the inside of the RV was only between 4 degrees and 8 degrees cooler than the outside temperature. On the day it was 88 outside it was 83 inside. When it was 84 outside it was 79 inside.

Here are some specifics on the Air Conditioning issue:

• We had both thermostats set at 72 degrees on the Auto Cool High setting.
• Shortly after the sun would come up both units started up and continued to run without stooping until between 9pm and 10pm at night; at which point the RV had finally cooled down to the 72 degree set point.
• All windows and vent fans were closed the entire time.
• We were hooked up to 50 amp service at the campground and the RV power management control panel confirmed we were running on 50 amps.
• Both the night shades and the solar shades were down on all windows and the windshield the entire time. No sun was entering the RV, and of course we were unable to see out of any of the windows during daylight for our entire trip.
• Both units continued to blow cool air for the 12 to 14 hours a day they continuously ran. The air coming form the vents was less cool during the warmest part of the day.
• All duct vents for both units inside are open. We tried multiple ways of adjusting the vents, closing some, redirecting some, keeping the bedroom and bathrooms doors open and closed in various ways.
• One day we left the RV at 1pm and returned at 5pm; so the door was not open during those 4 hours. The temperature inside was 79 when we left at 1pm and 81 when we returned at 5pm.
• One day we pulled in 2 of the slides and left only one extended. We thought reducing the amount of area exposed to the sun and reducing the inside space might help. Doing this had no impact on the inside temperature.
• As previously mentioned one day the back unit stopped moving air through the vents for about 6 hours before a mobile tech found and fixed that issue. During this time we closed the bedroom door in an attempt to keep heat from the back of the RV coming into the front. During this 6 hours with just one unit running the temperature outside was 82 and the temperature inside was 85 in both the back and the front of the RV.
• We drove 9-1/2 hours home with the generator running and both heat pumps on the entire trip. The temperature outside was between 80 and 84 degrees. The temperature inside in the back was 78 and in the front was 80 degrees.

Once the sun was out for a few hours you could feel the inside walls of the RV were very warm. Inside the cabinets was very hot, you could feel the heat come out of them when they were opened. We have dark maroon collared exterior paint (scheme Dark Ember) and I thought that could be the problem. It is hard to imagine Winnebago would sell a $175k RV with a paint color that would prevent the RV from staying cool inside when the sun was out, but maybe this was the case. At the campground we were staying was a 2012 Winnebago Sightseer RV with a black exterior that was also 37 feet long like ours. I spoke with the owner and he had never had a problem keeping his RV cool, even in temperatures in the mid-90’s. While our RV was 80 degrees inside his was 74 (the set point for both his units) and they were cycling on and off.

Today the RV has been parked in our driveway in New Jersey and is plugged into 50 amps from our garage. Our driveway has heavy shading on 3-1/2 sides with only some western exposure. It was 90 degrees today and the RV had no problem maintaining 71 degrees most of the day; note during this time the RV was not exposed to any direct sunlight. The set point on both units was 71 degrees and the units would cycle on and off throughout the day. Around 3pm roughly one half of one side of the RV was exposed to the sun and the temperature inside began to rise and the heat pumps ran continuously until the sun went down.

I am not an engineer or mechanic but my suspicion is this RV was not insulated properly, or the insulation being used is inadequate. Or possibly the size and number of heat pumps cannot keep this RV cool when the sun is out. Our previous RV (2010 Winnebago Sunstar 32k- which is a step below our current RV) was able to stay cool in temperatures 95 degrees and above.

Floridakamper · 09-02-2016, 06:51 AM

Very clearly written. I hope you get some help from Winnebago.

kwilkins · 09-02-2016, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floridakamper

Very clearly written. I hope you get some help from Winnebago.

Hi Bob. Are you still having the same cooling issues. Do you think your problem is with the heat pumps or is it likely the same issue I am having?

Floridakamper · 09-02-2016, 08:01 AM

We're in York, Pa., and the good news is, "It's Cool!" When we first go here it was high 80's and the front unit struggled in the heat of the day. And in Richmond, Va., it was brutally hot in the MH during the heat of the day. When the dealer worked on it, he said it was frozen up in the heat the day and not cooling properly. He said he moved the freeze sensor and that should take care of it. I suspect the freeze-up is a continuing problem in the heat of the day. When we get home, I'm going to confirm or rule that out, so I can go to the local dealer with the data. Even had the heat on for a bit this morning. The thermostat said, electric heat and not heat pump, so I've got to do some reading. And the electric heat, appeared to only be an option for the back unit and not the front unit. Both units are supposed to be 13.5 Heat Pumps.