Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-08-2014, 07:38 AM   #261
Winnie-Wise
 
Ramzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 352
To ardbark...You sound like a man with common sense.
__________________
06' Itasca Meridian 36g with CAT 350
2011 Jeep Wrangler 4-door
Ramzfan is offline  
Old 09-08-2014, 08:40 AM   #262
Winnebago Camper
 
RV735's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 25
Here is an example of the impact of toad with no brakes in a panic stop.

Assuming it take 300 feet form 65 MPH to stop your rig in a panic stop (no toad).
Assume your rig weights 30k#s, your toad weights 5k#s.

A toad with no brakes would take approx:
(30,000 + 5,000 / 30,000) x 300 ft. to stop = 350 ft.
or 50 feet additional stopping distance with no brakes on the toad!

Do you feel safe stopping 50 feet farther in a panic stop?

While there are many factors to consider when estimating stopping distance this presents a "simplification" of the impact of no brakes on a toad.

Safe travels and THE JOY IS IN THE RIDE
__________________
2004 Meridian, 2006 Jeep Liberty, Blue Ox, Airforce one
https://rvgr8escape.blogspot.com/
FMCA 403779
RV735 is offline  
Old 09-08-2014, 08:48 AM   #263
Winnebago Owner
 
CampDaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulltime, USA
Posts: 111
Do we really need a braking system in our toads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV735 View Post
Here is an example of the impact of toad with no brakes in a panic stop.

Assuming it take 300 feet form 65 MPH to stop your rig in a panic stop (no toad).
Assume your rig weights 30k#s, your toad weights 5k#s.

A toad with no brakes would take approx:
(30,000 + 5,000 / 30,000) x 300 ft. to stop = 350 ft.
or 50 feet additional stopping distance with no brakes on the toad!

Do you feel safe stopping 50 feet farther in a panic stop?

While there are many factors to consider when estimating stopping distance this presents a "simplification" of the impact of no brakes on a toad.

Safe travels and THE JOY IS IN THE RIDE

Right on all points.
My rig is 37K + 5K toad, and when my 13 YO Brake Buddy engages I can feel it do so. Is it my extremely hi-tech system 😉 or my perceptive ability?
Some like to live on the edge. I prefer to gain the edge.
Again, I repeat, it saved a child. Get the picture?
Let basic physics work FOR you! Physics has some nifty laws, ya know?
Be safe and safe-ER.
Decrease the risk.
This is how I justify having it. You can have one or not. Your choice.
I consider the issue to be moot.
__________________
Dave and Nola, RVM1
The Journey is Our Destination!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
https://davenola.blogspot.com/
CampDaven is offline  
Old 09-08-2014, 11:30 AM   #264
Winnebago Camper
 
TwelveVolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by CampDaven View Post
Right on all points.
My rig is 37K + 5K toad, and when my 13 YO Brake Buddy engages I can feel it do so. Is it my extremely hi-tech system 😉 or my perceptive ability?

If you can feel it engage behind a 37k bus, it sounds like the BB's brake pressure is cranked up too high. If the cost of toad brakes and tires is not an issue, then the 300ft stopping distance in the pervious post could probably be reduced to 275ft by cranking the pressure even higher.

The down side is that you are now depending on the BB to help stop the bus, not just the toad. As you subtly adjust your driving habits to this shorter stopping distance, what happens on the day that the BB fails with no advance warning to the driver and stopping distance is suddenly back to 350ft?
TwelveVolt is offline  
Old 09-08-2014, 01:22 PM   #265
Winnebago Owner
 
CampDaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulltime, USA
Posts: 111
Do we really need a braking system in our toads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwelveVolt View Post
If you can feel it engage behind a 37k bus, it sounds like the BB's brake pressure is cranked up too high. If the cost of toad brakes and tires is not an issue, then the 300ft stopping distance in the pervious post could probably be reduced to 275ft by cranking the pressure even higher.

The down side is that you are now depending on the BB to help stop the bus, not just the toad. As you subtly adjust your driving habits to this shorter stopping distance, what happens on the day that the BB fails with no advance warning to the driver and stopping distance is suddenly back to 350ft?

There is always risk. Most risk to those that needed that 50 ft and did not equip, so......

I do not depend on the BB, and the pressure is set just fine. I always allow more than twice the distance I need, just in case. Everyone should take the Smith Driving System course.

My BB was there. It was a panic stop. I needed every advantage. Child not injured. Those without a system.....?

Like I said: topic is moot.
__________________
Dave and Nola, RVM1
The Journey is Our Destination!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
https://davenola.blogspot.com/
CampDaven is offline  
Old 09-09-2014, 03:09 AM   #266
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,520
If you feel it, it may not be because the system is set too sensitive but that the hitch or tow bar has too much slack in it which allows you to feel the weight of the toad take up the slack and then unload as the toad brakes get applied so the hitch, coupling, base plate or tow bar may need to be tightened up to eliminate the slack.

All part of maintenance.
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
NeilV is offline  
Old 09-09-2014, 08:39 AM   #267
Winnebago Owner
 
tedgard01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 50
Do we really need a braking system in our toads?

My wife thinks it is because I am too sensitive and too slack.... Maybe that is why she is always putting the brakes on...


Ted
tedgard01 is offline  
Old 09-13-2014, 01:28 PM   #268
Winnebago Camper
 
rini2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chazy, NY
Posts: 14
Ok, I viewed, and thought I would stay out of this, but Ramsfan & Ardbark who are you trying to justify your ill responsible, short sighted, and illegal rationale for one not compiling with the law in the majority of states, by not having a braking system on your towed vehicle. Regardless that you think you see no difference in the braking with your new braking system than prior to the installation, the laws of physics are clear, if you apply more braking axles to a given vehicle, under the same circumstances, YOU WILL STOP IN A SHORTER DISTANCE. You have made a major investment in your motorhomes and hopefully are enjoying all that this life style can provide. Why chance your safety or that of an innocent fellow traveler by electing not to have a compliant towed vehicle braking system. The one time and hopefully that time never comes is when in a panic braking situation you stop just short of being hurt or hurting someone else thanks to having all the braking ability you could have in both motorhome and the towed vehicle behind you. I speak from experience, I have been driving 18 wheelers and other heavy vehicles for 36 years, 3 million miles behind me, no accidents.
Life is too,too short. We are all lucky enough to be able to enjoy this lifestyle. Let's be as safe and responsible as we can.
__________________
Jeff & Rini, Chazy, NY
2012 Winnebago 33C Sightseer, Ford F53
2012 Chevy Silverado (toad)
rini2 is offline  
Old 09-13-2014, 06:00 PM   #269
Winnie-Wise
 
Ramzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 352
Rini2...as I first stated, I too have been driving Motorhomes, trucks, heavy vehicles since 1968, motorhomes without toad brakes since 1977. I too have never had an accident. What does that prove...?
__________________
06' Itasca Meridian 36g with CAT 350
2011 Jeep Wrangler 4-door
Ramzfan is offline  
Old 09-14-2014, 04:29 AM   #270
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramzfan View Post
Rini2...as I first stated, I too have been driving Motorhomes, trucks, heavy vehicles since 1968, motorhomes without toad brakes since 1977. I too have never had an accident. What does that prove...?
That you should know better than to disregard the toad brake? Tractor trailers have a breakaway by default so one would question why a commercial trucker would not want to afford people riding near to them the same on his personal vehicle in tow. Especially when a mishap or infraction on a personal vehicle could put ones CDL at risk. Members of my family are very cautious about safety infractions with their personal vehicles that could put their CDL at risk.
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
NeilV is offline  
Old 09-14-2014, 08:32 AM   #271
Winnie-Wise
 
smack2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 311
Have you ever turned your vehicle off while coasting in neutral and pushed the brake a few times to stop it? On my 2014 Wrangler 4 door, I have to push the brake with all my might, to the point where I feel like I am going to break the seat and it will barely stop the jeep. So do most brake systems work? Not sure.


Scott
__________________
2013 Itasca Ellipse 42 QD
2014 Jeep Wrangler
Full time in 2013
smack2020 is offline  
Old 09-14-2014, 01:07 PM   #272
Winnebago Watcher
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4
My son in law has new a new ford truck with 12,000 miles on it and he pulls a 26' camper and also a trailer with a tractor on it. I looked at his disc from a distance and noticed it is so scarred up probably from over heating they need to be replaced. Good reason to have trailer brakes or brake buddy.
flangley is offline  
Old 09-14-2014, 01:21 PM   #273
Winnebago Watcher
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by rini2 View Post
Ok, I viewed, and thought I would stay out of this, but Ramsfan & Ardbark who are you trying to justify your ill responsible, short sighted, and illegal rationale for one not compiling with the law in the majority of states, by not having a braking system on your towed vehicle. Regardless that you think you see no difference in the braking with your new braking system than prior to the installation, the laws of physics are clear, if you apply more braking axles to a given vehicle, under the same circumstances, YOU WILL STOP IN A SHORTER DISTANCE. You have made a major investment in your motorhomes and hopefully are enjoying all that this life style can provide. Why chance your safety or that of an innocent fellow traveler by electing not to have a compliant towed vehicle braking system. The one time and hopefully that time never comes is when in a panic braking situation you stop just short of being hurt or hurting someone else thanks to having all the braking ability you could have in both motorhome and the towed vehicle behind you. I speak from experience, I have been driving 18 wheelers and other heavy vehicles for 36 years, 3 million miles behind me, no accidents.
Life is too,too short. We are all lucky enough to be able to enjoy this lifestyle. Let's be as safe and responsible as we can.
I definitely agree! I feel like the main thing is if you lose your towed the break away switch puts the brakes on the towed to stop it and keep it from killing innocent people.
flangley is offline  
Old 09-14-2014, 01:22 PM   #274
Winnebago Camper
 
MCJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Western NC -Cherokee area
Posts: 5
Yes - you need a braking system in a toad. Many reasons that all seem easy to understand. RvBrake 2 makes a nice portable unit that make changing toads easy down the pike and you only spend the money once.
MCJones is offline  
Old 09-14-2014, 01:27 PM   #275
Winnebago Watcher
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramzfan View Post
Being as I started this thread, and you folks convinced me that I should go out and buy a braking (not breaking) system for my toad, I would like to comment on what I have found on my first long trip with the system.
My system is a Roadmaster Invisibrake. It was professionally installed. It is mounted in a 2011 Jeep Wrangler 4-door toad. I tow it with a 36' Diesel Motorhome powered by a 350 Cat engine.
I find absolutely no difference with the toad now as from when I towed it with no braking system. I have found that an easy way to tell is when I am using the engine brake. On long downhill decents, When the engine brake comes on, the toad brake comes on also. After 10 to 15 seconds, the toad brake shuts off, so as not to burn out the brakes. It is designed to operate this way. I have paid close attention when on these grades and when the toad brake shut off, there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE! Oh well, $1,400.00 later, I guess I can always claim that I have the latest handy-dandy braking system available if I'm ever in an accident....!
I paid $500 for everything on craigslist. Even Brake, Falcon II tow bar and all cables.
flangley is offline  
Old 09-14-2014, 09:27 PM   #276
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by smack2020 View Post
Have you ever turned your vehicle off while coasting in neutral and pushed the brake a few times to stop it? On my 2014 Wrangler 4 door, I have to push the brake with all my might, to the point where I feel like I am going to break the seat and it will barely stop the jeep. So do most brake systems work? Not sure.


Scott
On you Elipse it works the opposite in that once the engine is off and the air tanks are depleted the brake will no longer have enough air pressure to release them and the vehicle will come to a stop. In 1869 it was George Westinghouse that brought this all about on trains and that system is still in use on trains, heavy trucks, buses and large RV's today. The standard of the transportation industry as far as brakes on heavy loads and loads being towed is concerned is that when power to the brake system fails the brakes then self activate.

I came across one in Kittery Maine where a goose-neck trailer loaded with a big bulldozer and a large pay-loader separated when the driver tried to stop for the toll-booth heading South. The joint between the goose-neck and the flatbed of the trailer had failed. The brakes automatically applied and kept the trailer and equipment from continuing down the road at 55 mph into about 100 cars and the toll-booth. It was a beautiful thing to see that stop and only have a few cars off the road instead of seeing the carnage that would have occurred if all that tonnage had continued on unchecked.

Not perfect but a much better outcome than if the trailer did not have the air brakes working properly and apply on breakaway.
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
NeilV is offline  
Old 09-15-2014, 08:11 PM   #277
Winnie-Wise
 
Ramzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by flangley View Post
I paid $500 for everything on craigslist. Even Brake, Falcon II tow bar and all cables.
That's a great price flanley. Not what I wanted though.
__________________
06' Itasca Meridian 36g with CAT 350
2011 Jeep Wrangler 4-door
Ramzfan is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
toad, toads


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Braking System craig C Towing, Hitching and Vehicles 26 02-02-2017 07:54 AM
Winnebago View TOADS gaugeguy Winnebago Class C Motorhomes 10 02-28-2012 06:48 AM
Do you really need slider locks? IMPULSE DRIVEN General Maintenance and Repair 18 07-25-2011 08:09 AM
TOADS tps0424 Towing, Hitching and Vehicles 12 12-08-2006 07:44 AM
ABS braking system in Freightliner chassis General Maintenance and Repair 8 12-31-1969 07:00 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Winnebago Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.